Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.

It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
"aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.

HD Tech service is willing to discuss it further IF I am willing to
put my bike back to stock. Without that it's the exhaust's that
causing the issue. They also recommended a Super SERT.

They are willing to pick up the labor to install compression releases.
Which is not bad.

Compression releases.

Manual
Automatic

The tool for the manual version is about $250. The one for the auto
is $969. Figure dealer cost is say 55-60% of that.

Think my dealer has either. Think again. They are willing to pick up
the tool for the manual version. Not much difference in the actual
parts cost of the manual vs. auto releases so I start calling around.

Think anyone has the tool for the ACR? Nope. Guy at MB HD tells me
the Harley starter is crap and that includes the heavy duty version.
Then tells me to check it by turning off the bike with the kill switch
and leave it in gear. Then roll it back a bit to get it off the
compression stroke. Then start it. If that cures the problem then
its compression related and the releases will fix it.

If we weren't in the middle of a really nice thunderstorm I'd try it.
I definitely will tomorrow.


Dave (Dukes Sheep)
'07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps

A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?

"Sheep" <d.l.dubose@bell.south.net> wrote in message
news:k1lf841ag939h003qh5pg4mh604nfi1r78@4ax.com...
> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>
> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>
> HD Tech service is willing to discuss it further IF I am willing to
> put my bike back to stock. Without that it's the exhaust's that
> causing the issue. They also recommended a Super SERT.
>
> They are willing to pick up the labor to install compression releases.
> Which is not bad.
>
> Compression releases.
>

Interesting, I'd never thought a exhaust would cause to high of static
compression just by eliminating the cross over.

As far as dyno it shows that cross over isn't important. Jerry Branch of
Branch heads studied a exhaust with and with out. His words out of my
book.We removed the pipes and plugged the crossover tubes, this showed
almost no change at all in the power. But would probably show up on a
emissions test as diluting the unburned gases somewhat.

Good luck, my server is off tomorrow so I won't see a reply as to how much
more you gain, or not gain I'd get another opinion.
--



Carl
99 FLSTF
I started out with nothing and
I just about have that paid for

Remove one 9 to reply

Sheep wrote:

> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>
> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call bullshit.
Sorry I don't have something more helpful for ya though.

Omar

"Sheep" <d.l.dubose@bell.south.net> wrote

> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.

How far is yer dealer from Dillard? I not only have the V&Hs duals, I've got
their steenkeeng aftermarket mufflers. AND a ThunderMax! It's a wonder it
starts at all...... instead it fires on the first spin. Mebbe we oughta
swing by and ruin their whole day <g>

112

On Jul 23, 11:31*pm, "TL \(at work\)"
<tlmitchell99(nospam)@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Sheep" <d.l.dub...@bell.south.net> wrote
>
> > It's all my fault. *I put on V&H true duals. *Yep. *Adding
> > "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> > kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> > my bike is hard to start. *Yep. *All my fault. *Eliminating that
> > single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>
> How far is yer dealer from Dillard? I not only have the V&Hs duals, I've got
> their steenkeeng aftermarket mufflers. AND a ThunderMax! It's a wonder it
> starts at all...... instead it fires on the first spin. Mebbe we oughta
> swing by and ruin their whole day <g>
>
> 112

5-hours. It's not my dealer, they agree something is wrong and the
pipes aren't the cause, it's HD tech service following what I am sure
is un-official/official corporate policy.

I'll show you what it's doing tomorrow. I thought about taking my
case number with me and stopping at every dealer on the way and
getting their opinion.

I tried the "roll back off compression stroke" suggestion this
morning. No good.

Sheep

"Sheep" <d.l.dubose@bell.south.net> wrote in message
news:k1lf841ag939h003qh5pg4mh604nfi1r78@4ax.com...
> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>
> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>

I'm having a tough time grasping how that could affect starting. Sounds
like kind of a stretch to me.

t

tater wrote:
> "Sheep" <d.l.dubose@bell.south.net> wrote in message
> news:k1lf841ag939h003qh5pg4mh604nfi1r78@4ax.com...
>> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>>
>> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
>> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
>> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
>> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
>> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>>
>
> I'm having a tough time grasping how that could affect starting. Sounds
> like kind of a stretch to me.

More than a stretch, it's complete bullshit. Unless one night while
Sheep was sleeping someone came over, pulled his pipes off, hammered big
freaking corks into his exhaust ports and then put the pipes back on
they're the problem.

Or maybe some sinister mastermind has come, once again while Sheep was
sleeping, pulled the pipes and replaced the first eight inches or so of
the pipe with fiendishly clever replicas made of extremely thick-walled
tubing (oh, say 1 3/4 OD and 1/4" ID).

Or maybe some fiendish mastermind installed the
EveryNowAndThenTheExhaustValvesWon'tOpen secret hardware. Oh, fiendish!

Or maybe I should shut up and watch some tv for awhile...
--
spunky hussein yeahthat'swhati'lldo tuna

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:37:26 -0400, spunky hussein tuna wrote:

>tater wrote:
>> "Sheep" wrote in message
>> >>> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>>>
>>> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
>>> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
>>> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
>>> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
>>> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>>>
>>
>> I'm having a tough time grasping how that could affect starting. Sounds
>> like kind of a stretch to me.
>
>More than a stretch, it's complete bullshit. Unless one night while
>Sheep was sleeping someone came over, pulled his pipes off, hammered big
>freaking corks into his exhaust ports and then put the pipes back on
>they're the problem.
>
>Or maybe some sinister mastermind has come, once again while Sheep was
>sleeping, pulled the pipes and replaced the first eight inches or so of
>the pipe with fiendishly clever replicas made of extremely thick-walled
>tubing (oh, say 1 3/4 OD and 1/4" ID).
>
>Or maybe some fiendish mastermind installed the
>EveryNowAndThenTheExhaustValvesWon'tOpen secret hardware. Oh, fiendish!
>
>Or maybe I should shut up and watch some tv for awhile...


Some of that shit could have happened. I'll check tonight.


Dave (Dukes Sheep)
'07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps

A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:49:14 GMT, Omar wrote:

>Sheep wrote:
>
>> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>>
>> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
>> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
>> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
>> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
>> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>
>I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call bullshit.
>Sorry I don't have something more helpful for ya though.
>
>Omar

I tend to agree with you.


Dave (Dukes Sheep)
'07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps

A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?

On 2008-07-24 08:37:26 -0700, spunky hussein tuna
<spunkyhusseintuna@earthlink.net> said:

> Or maybe I should shut up and watch some tv for awhile...

Na. However I am disappointed that you did not include in your tirade
the uselessness of "True Dual" exhaust! (Don't get up, allow me......)

Of how one should be so crass as to isolate the cylinders on his
machine, how separationist!

To not let the fronts see the rears is ludicrous! (and a possible
rights violation)

To have a 2 cylinder'd machine and not let them know about each other
is such a waste.

Have you true dual types never heard of Yin and Yang? Push & Pull? Jack Sprat?

In my neighborhood all the fronts hang out with the rears in a communal
fashion for mutual benefit.

This is most notable on garbage day, you will see Yin and Yang working
together to drag the garbage out to the curb. On the other side of the
street Push and Pull are (you guessed it) together performing the
exhausting task. And of course there is Jack and his lovely wife (I
think maybe you are getting the picture now)....

Yes! It is togetherness that makes the job easier!

When one is going one direction anyway, why not help the other? Why
make the other start from scratch to get that shit all moving? (it
oughta be illegal)(probably is somewhere)

Since the TV is on, I'll use NASCAR as further example. You know how
when the Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhart (or maybe it was Richard Petty
and Davie Allson)(doesnt really matter) are racing down the backstretch
(both cars are equally powered and driven by talented(?) drivers) the
car in the back gets a tow and is able to pass the front car using the
momentum of that tow? Or how those two cars together are faster than
Robbie Gordon (who rarely gets any help other than a stiff breeze in
the wrong direction)?

Is the picture any clearer yet?

YES! That is why Rich Products makes a dummy muffler for the left side!
To fool you separationist, isolationistic, ludicrous True Dual fuckers
(slow posers)!

Don't get me started on the touring exhaust "why" pipe!
--
Ryder Rick
<we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming>

Ryder Rick wrote:

> Na. However I am disappointed that you did not include in your tirade
> the uselessness of "True Dual" exhaust! (Don't get up, allow me......)
>
> Of how one should be so crass as to isolate the cylinders on his
> machine, how separationist!
>
> To not let the fronts see the rears is ludicrous! (and a possible rights
> violation)
>
> To have a 2 cylinder'd machine and not let them know about each other is
> such a waste.
>
> Have you true dual types never heard of Yin and Yang? Push & Pull? Jack
> Sprat?
>
> In my neighborhood all the fronts hang out with the rears in a communal
> fashion for mutual benefit.
>
> This is most notable on garbage day, you will see Yin and Yang working
> together to drag the garbage out to the curb. On the other side of the
> street Push and Pull are (you guessed it) together performing the
> exhausting task. And of course there is Jack and his lovely wife (I
> think maybe you are getting the picture now)....
>
> Yes! It is togetherness that makes the job easier!
>
> When one is going one direction anyway, why not help the other? Why make
> the other start from scratch to get that shit all moving? (it oughta be
> illegal)(probably is somewhere)
>
> Since the TV is on, I'll use NASCAR as further example. You know how
> when the Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhart (or maybe it was Richard Petty
> and Davie Allson)(doesnt really matter) are racing down the backstretch
> (both cars are equally powered and driven by talented(?) drivers) the
> car in the back gets a tow and is able to pass the front car using the
> momentum of that tow? Or how those two cars together are faster than
> Robbie Gordon (who rarely gets any help other than a stiff breeze in the
> wrong direction)?
>
> Is the picture any clearer yet?
>
> YES! That is why Rich Products makes a dummy muffler for the left side!
> To fool you separationist, isolationistic, ludicrous True Dual fuckers
> (slow posers)!
>
> Don't get me started on the touring exhaust "why" pipe!

Ah, bravo! Iffen I could stand I'd give you a standing ovation for
that. Lovely, pure poetry.

It's high time we brought back the art of the rant to r.m.h Used to be
an honored thing around here, but it's fallen out of fashion, I'm afraid.

Senor Rick drinks on my tab all day long today.
--
spunky hussein likintherant tuna

"Sheep" <d.l.dubose@bell.south.net> wrote in message
news:k1lf841ag939h003qh5pg4mh604nfi1r78@4ax.com...
> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>
> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>
> HD Tech service is willing to discuss it further IF I am willing to
> put my bike back to stock. Without that it's the exhaust's that
> causing the issue. They also recommended a Super SERT.
>
> They are willing to pick up the labor to install compression releases.
> Which is not bad.
>
> Compression releases.
>
> Manual
> Automatic

GO MANUAL, the automatics have thier issues, supposedly the heat of the rear
jug on th 110's is causing problems.

My Starter makes NASTY noise about 50% of the start's, bendix/ring gears
grinding kinda noise, which my STEALER has ~NEVER~ heard on my bike, and
attributes it to compensator-clunk syndrom, -NOT-!!!!!

Before the Warrenty is up this Fall I'll be back and insist on them
listening to the bike start.

RANT OFF


--
TaxmanHog - http://home.comcast.net/~taxmanhog/
BS#275
07-Ultra-CVO, 04-VRSCA-1320cc, 98-FXSTS
r.m.h FAQ - http://rmhfaq.com

Sheep wrote:

> Barkeep. Something from that clear jar.
>
> It's all my fault. I put on V&H true duals. Yep. Adding
> "aftermarket" pipes even though I have the stock mufflers from the 103
> kit has caused an extremely high compression to occur and that's why
> my bike is hard to start. Yep. All my fault. Eliminating that
> single cross over from the exhaust pipes did it.
>
> HD Tech service is willing to discuss it further IF I am willing to
> put my bike back to stock. Without that it's the exhaust's that
> causing the issue. They also recommended a Super SERT.
>
> They are willing to pick up the labor to install compression releases.
> Which is not bad.
>
> Compression releases.
>
> Manual
> Automatic
>
> The tool for the manual version is about $250. The one for the auto
> is $969. Figure dealer cost is say 55-60% of that.
>
> Think my dealer has either. Think again. They are willing to pick up
> the tool for the manual version. Not much difference in the actual
> parts cost of the manual vs. auto releases so I start calling around.
>
> Think anyone has the tool for the ACR? Nope. Guy at MB HD tells me
> the Harley starter is crap and that includes the heavy duty version.
> Then tells me to check it by turning off the bike with the kill switch
> and leave it in gear. Then roll it back a bit to get it off the
> compression stroke. Then start it. If that cures the problem then
> its compression related and the releases will fix it.
>
> If we weren't in the middle of a really nice thunderstorm I'd try it.
> I definitely will tomorrow.
>
> Dave (Dukes Sheep)
> '07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
> "Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps
>
> A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
> Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?



Gotta wonder what the cranking compression is on it. My bike has 205 psi
and it starts fine cold or hot. It would protest if I pull in for gas from
slab time and fire it right back up after filling it up. Everything's
pretty damn hot then though and a little fiddling with the timing on the
t-max corrected that.

I'm assuming your bike is kicking the starter when you start it. Probably
only after it's warmed up not when it's overnight cold. If that's the case
the easiest fix is compression releases. If you don't want the hassle of
compression releases then get someone to take the heads off, measure
everything and open up the chambers a few cc's as needed to get your
compression where you need it. If the heads have to come off to machine
for compression releases then that's the perfect time to open up the heads
and not put the releases in. Another alternative is to go bigger on the
camshaft, (narrower lsa, more overlap) that'll lower the cranking
compression and give you more power, a win win imo.

It's a shame that the dealer's idiots don't have the knowledge to correct
your problem. I run into similar stuff all the time because the local car
dealers will not work on modified cars. They refer to me and I'm not going
to complain.

As a customer I'd be pissed if I paid someone/anyone to modify my bike
and then they couldn't fix it or make it work right.



nobody #1

On 2008-07-24 13:21:42 -0700, spunky hussein tuna
<spunkyhusseintuna@earthlink.net> said:

> Ah, bravo! Iffen I could stand I'd give you a standing ovation for
> that. Lovely, pure poetry.
>
> It's high time we brought back the art of the rant to r.m.h Used to be
> an honored thing around here, but it's fallen out of fashion, I'm
> afraid.
>
> Senor Rick drinks on my tab all day long today.

Thanks,

I have fielded at least 5 phone calls in the last couple of weeks from
guys who want better performance, yet are not willing to face the
factors that are holding them back.

Oh! I have the 95" kit! <me> Have you done the headwork and cams? <him>
No <me> Do you realize you only got a 1 horsepower gain from the
upgrade? <him> Oh, I just need a tune up......

Faaaaaawwwwkkkk!

Surely a Double Vat-O (with a kick) over here.....
--
Ryder Rick
<burnouts & wheelies, boobs & nice butts some things just go together so nice>