Driving my van home from the blueberry farm last night I got a sudden
insight: I'M SITTING (more or less) IN THE CRUISER RIDING POSITION!

What a revelation. Well I can drive this van a hundred miles at a time
without getting a backache, whereas a cruiser hurts my lower back
in less than 20 miles.

The difference is that in the van my back, especially my lower back
is well supported. Then clearly did I recall some half-remembered
words from Reeky (posted July 30/08 by the honorable member known
only as "."):

> The cruiser rider has to adopt the "sit up and beg" posture. It's not
> even possible to "post" on a cruiser, the rider has to take whatever
> bump he encounters up his butt into his spine, because the footpegs
> are too far forward. All the rider can do is try to pull himself up
> with his arms.

> This gets tiresome after about 45 minutes, and the lower back starts
> to hurt, unless the seat has a backrest. 120 degrees is the best angle
> for the backrest.

Obviously, I need to rush out and buy a backrest for my Harley and
perhaps also for the S40, although for that bike I've been trying
to design modifications for a more neutral posture.

Incidentally, I use an "ergonomic" kneeling chair at this computer,
where some of my weight is supported by a pad under my shins. Maybe
I'll replace it with a layout similar to a UJM, with a bench seat,
footpegs etc... I could even use foot controls for commonly used
keys such as carriage return, etc.

Sean_Q_
'99 FLHTCUI / '06 S40 / '81 CB750 chopper / various projects & derelicts

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:21:35 GMT, Sean_Q_ <nospam@no.sapm> wrote:

>Driving my van home from the blueberry farm last night I got a sudden
>insight: I'M SITTING (more or less) IN THE CRUISER RIDING POSITION!
>
>What a revelation. Well I can drive this van a hundred miles at a time
>without getting a backache, whereas a cruiser hurts my lower back
>in less than 20 miles.
>
>The difference is that in the van my back, especially my lower back
>is well supported.

Duh :-) Plus you can easily shift around.

--
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On Aug 24, 2:21*pm, Sean_Q_ <nos...@no.sapm> wrote:
> Driving my van home from the blueberry farm last night I got a sudden
> insight: I'M SITTING (more or less) IN THE CRUISER RIDING POSITION!
>
> What a revelation. Well I can drive this van a hundred miles at a time
> without getting a backache, whereas a cruiser hurts my lower back
> in less than 20 miles.
>
> The difference is that in the van my back, especially my lower back
> is well supported. Then clearly did I recall some half-remembered
> words from Reeky (posted July 30/08 by the honorable member known
> only as "."):
>
> *> The cruiser rider has to adopt the "sit up and beg" posture. It's not
> *> even possible to "post" on a cruiser, the rider has to take whatever
> *> bump he encounters up his butt into his spine, because the footpegs
> *> are too far forward. All the rider can do is try to pull himself up
> *> with his arms.
>
> *> This gets tiresome after about 45 minutes, and the lower back starts
> *> to hurt, unless the seat has a backrest. 120 degrees is the best angle
> *> for the backrest.
>
> Obviously, I need to rush out and buy a backrest for my Harley and
> perhaps also for the S40, although for that bike I've been trying
> to design modifications for a more neutral posture.

You also need to do the opposite of the "kewl" new trend of "lowering"
your motorcycle. That entails bolting on tiny shocks with very little
travel which only exacerbates the shocks that end up transmitted to
your spinal column. Irks me to no end that Harley actually sells such
stupidity on a stock motorcycle.

Besides being unable to soften pothole shocks with you legs, another
problem with cruiser posture is that the gyno chair leg positioning
tends to get tiring as you have to fight the wind attempting to spread
your legs like Bubba on fresh meat day at the Pen. Without heal
support, this riding position is downright unpleasant at speed, but it
does make for a good isometric excersise.

"Ape" handlebars are everybit as ridiculous as undersized shocks as
they unfold you like a sail in the wind. Again, highway speeds become
obnoxious as you have to hangon like an Al Queda trainee on Osama's
monkey bars as the wind tries to topple you off the silly thing.

Contrast that with a Burgman scooter:

* Feet out front with proper wind protection.

* A seat with an uber-comfy step for low back support.

* Properly designed suspension.

* A proper windscreen and handlebars designed for humans, not
orangutan.

One could ride one of those things around the country without batting
an eye.

On Aug 24, 11:21�am, Sean_Q_ <nos...@no.sapm> wrote:

> What a revelation. Well I can drive this van a hundred miles at a time
> without getting a backache, whereas a cruiser hurts my lower back
> in less than 20 miles.

Eureka! You have had an epiphany, ken-sho, satori, enlightenment. You
have realized the need for lumbar support.

> The difference is that in the van my back, especially my lower back
> is well supported. Then clearly did I recall some half-remembered
> words from Reeky (posted July 30/08 by the honorable member known
> only as "."):
>
> �> The cruiser rider has to adopt the "sit up and beg" posture. It's not
> �> even possible to "post" on a cruiser, the rider has to take whatever
> �> bump he encounters up his butt into his spine, because the footpegs
> �> are too far forward. All the rider can do is try to pull himself up
> �> with his arms.
>
> �> This gets tiresome after about 45 minutes, and the lower back starts
> �> to hurt, unless the seat has a backrest. 120 degrees is the best angle
> �> for the backrest.
>
> Obviously, I need to rush out and buy a backrest for my Harley and
> perhaps also for the S40, although for that bike I've been trying
> to design modifications for a more neutral posture.

Yes, you could make your S40 more like a standard, and keep all the
compromises inherent to the high center of gravity of the motorized
bicycle, or you could leave the controls alone and buy a backrest or a
high "King and Queen" seat.

Or you could go really radical and build something like Dan Gurney's
limited
production "Alligator", which has a seat that's only about 20 inches
off the ground.

Gurney is a big guy, about 6' 6", and he says that the high center of
gravity of a standard motorcycle always made him think he was about to
be thrown over the handlebars.

So he designed the Alligator around a Honda XL650 motor, an extended
wheelbase, and feet forward controls.

One of my projects, should I ever find a V-twin motorcyle at the right
price, is based upon the Alligator. It would have a very low seat with
backrest, feet forward controls, a telelever front suspension, ala BMW
for better front wheel control, and shaft drive for low maintenance.

Sean_Q_ <nospam@no.sapm> wrote:

:
:Obviously, I need to rush out and buy a backrest for my Harley and
erhaps also for the S40, although for that bike I've been trying
:to design modifications for a more neutral posture.

Let me be the first to say...

DUH!

The back rest will also solve most shoulder/hands/elbow problems.
Instead of pulling on the grips all day, you will find yourself
relaxing and pushing the bars.

If you have floorboards and get a sturdy back rest, you can lift
your butt out of the seat for mile after mile by leaning your back
against the back rest and lifting with your feet. Voila! No more
monkey butt.

The major drawback of the back rest is you may have to swing your
leg over the gas tank to mount the bike.

---
Typical White Asshole

saddlebag wrote:

> Besides being unable to soften pothole shocks with you legs, another
> problem with cruiser posture is that the gyno chair leg positioning
> tends to get tiring as you have to fight the wind

With the fairing and lowers on my Electra Glide, I don't have a problem
with wind.

> "Ape" handlebars are every bit as ridiculous as undersized shocks

In order to understand this you need to examine Abraham Maslov's
hierarchy of needs. Riding comfort exists at the lowest (Physiological)
level, whereas ape hangers are higher up at Esteem (showing off,
impressing one's peers as well as girls, etc). In effect, they're
a statement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%...archy_of_needs

Earlier this year I found a CB750 chopper for sale on Craig's.
The moment I laid eyes on it and heard it run I knew I was buying it,
even though it's totally impractical from a purely riding point of view.

However, I thought its Cool factor was very high. It fills a social
need, not a riding need. When I took it to a bike show a few weeks ago
people gathered around it saying, "Wow, what a neat bike." It has
springer forks, about the longest of any bike there.

Then I started it up. Everyone was impressed. Note that this motor
has very little to do with actual propulsion and everything to do
with socialization. (The bike didn't have plates or insurance for road
use. I could get them any time, but that's beside the point).

Now there are a few voices here with scorn for "trailer queens"
(and yes, I did haul it up there on a trailer). However, this
is a cosmopolitan forum, for bikers and bikes of every type and usage.

Here in Reeky I even make an effort to be tolerant of sportbikes.

SQ

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:21:35 GMT, Sean_Q_ <nospam@no.sapm> wrote:

>
>Obviously, I need to rush out and buy a backrest for my Harley and
>perhaps also for the S40, although for that bike I've been trying
>to design modifications for a more neutral posture.

After riding 80,000 kms on my Venture I got spoiled with the backrest.
When I bought the Road King first thing I did was swap out the seat
and add a backrest. I chose the Comfort Fit seat with matching
backrest. While not as comfortable as the Venture set up it is pretty
darn good.

If I was to do it again I would opt for the Mustang backrest. I
believe it has more adjustments.


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.

Steve T wrote:

> The major drawback of the back rest is you may have to swing your
> leg over the gas tank to mount the bike.

Unless I get a folding backrest.

Another method (starting with Harley on sidestand, with bars locked
in full left turn position):

1. approach bike from starboard side.
2. grasp hand grips.
3. place right foot on right-hand floorboard
4. stand up on floorboard, whilst (ASAP)...
5. moving body weight leftwards, bringing it
above bike's center of gravity and...
6. swinging left leg over.
7. land in saddle

SQ

.. wrote:

> Or you could go really radical and build something like Dan Gurney's
> limited
> production "Alligator", which has a seat that's only about 20 inches
> off the ground.

Thanks for the ref. It almost looks like it makes sense:

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roa.../photo_01.html

However, my chiro said never sit with my knees higher than my butt.
I wonder if he meant that to include riding.

SQ

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:02:25 -0400, Steve T <rm2@no48panspam.com>
wrote:

>Sean_Q_ <nospam@no.sapm> wrote:
>
>:
>:Obviously, I need to rush out and buy a backrest for my Harley and
>erhaps also for the S40, although for that bike I've been trying
>:to design modifications for a more neutral posture.
>
>Let me be the first to say...
>
>DUH!

If I'd have known you wanted to be first, I would have
waited :-)


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Sean_Q_ <nospam@no.sapm> wrote:

:1. approach bike from starboard side.

No chance.
That's just a little too "Ponch and John" for me.

---
Typical White Asshole

On Aug 24, 1:46�pm, Sean_Q_ <nos...@no.sapm> wrote:

> However, my chiro said never sit with my knees higher than my butt.
> I wonder if he meant that to include riding.

Ask him.

If you spend a lot of time in a recliner with the back at 120 degrees
and your feet elevated with knees bent, your hamstring tendons will
eventually get shorter, and when you stand up, that puts a lot of
pressure on your gluteus maximus which eventually puts pressure on
your lumbar spine.

I stretched out my hamstrings by straightening my legs during my
websurfing
and eventually eliminated most of my back pain.

On Aug 24, 4:09*pm, Sean_Q_ <nos...@no.sapm> wrote:
> saddlebag wrote:
> > Besides being unable to soften pothole shocks with you legs, another
> > problem with cruiser posture is that the gyno chair leg positioning
> > tends to get tiring as you have to fight the wind
>
> With the fairing and lowers on my Electra Glide, I don't have a problem
> with wind.
>
> *> "Ape" handlebars are every bit as ridiculous as undersized shocks
>
> In order to understand this you need to examine Abraham Maslov's
> hierarchy of needs. Riding comfort exists at the lowest (Physiological)
> level, whereas ape hangers are higher up at Esteem (showing off,
> impressing one's peers as well as girls, etc). In effect, they're
> a statement.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%...archy_of_needs
>
> Earlier this year I found a CB750 chopper for sale on Craig's.
> The moment I laid eyes on it and heard it run I knew I was buying it,
> even though it's totally impractical from a purely riding point of view.
>
> However, I thought its Cool factor was very high. It fills a social
> need, not a riding need. When I took it to a bike show a few weeks ago
> people gathered around it saying, "Wow, what a neat bike." It has
> springer forks, about the longest of any bike there.
>
> Then I started it up. Everyone was impressed. Note that this motor
> has very little to do with actual propulsion and everything to do
> with socialization. (The bike didn't have plates or insurance for road
> use. I could get them any time, but that's beside the point).
>
> Now there are a few voices here with scorn for "trailer queens"
> (and yes, I did haul it up there on a trailer). However, this
> is a cosmopolitan forum, for bikers and bikes of every type and usage.
>
> Here in Reeky I even make an effort to be tolerant of sportbikes.

It's not a matter of tolerance. I couldn't care less how someone
wants to hill billy engineer their bike once they take it home. I'm
just bothered that an American motorcycle company is perpetuating
stupidity by selling "off the shelf" hill billy engineered bikes to
the uninformed masses because said uninformed masses think it looks
kewl.

Much better the sell a properly designed motorcycle and let the would
be hill billies see how a motorcycle is supposed to work before they
go and fuck it up. Might make Harley a lot of extra money too. They
could sell them all the hill billy parts and labor, then fix it back
for them after they figured out what a shitty ride they've created all
in the name of sheepdom.