Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".

--
"What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman

Venture Rider wrote:
> Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".

Sure. Every time I take my car, I am riding on car tires. When I
ride my bike, it's bike tires every time. The only time a car
tire belongs on a motorcycle is if there's a sidecar attached.
There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.

--
'07 FJR13AW '99 EX250-F13
OMF #7

On Aug 25, 12:59 pm, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> Venture Rider wrote:
> > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".

> There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
> differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
> engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
> than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
> found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
> Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.

Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.

On Aug 25, 1:33*pm, Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol.com> wrote:

> > Venture Rider wrote:
> > > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> > > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".

> > There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
> > differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
> > engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
> > than I am. *But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
> > found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
> > Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>
> Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.

What? Didn't you know that bikes no longer have to bother with that
confusing countersteering stuff if you put car tires on 'em?

Thereafter, they turn just like cars; no leaning required.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Rob Kleinschmidt said:

>On Aug 25, 12:59 pm, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>> Venture Rider wrote:
>> > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>> > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
>> There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
>> differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
>> engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
>> than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
>> found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
>> Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>
>Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.

The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/...eDarkSide.html


--
"What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman

On Aug 25, 2:28 pm, Venture Rider <dontbot...@bogus.dom> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Rob Kleinschmidt said:
>
> >On Aug 25, 12:59 pm, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> >> Venture Rider wrote:
> >> > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> >> > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
> >> There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
> >> differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
> >> engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
> >> than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
> >> found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
> >> Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>
> >Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
>
> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
> on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:
>
> http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/...eDarkSide.html

The few bikes I've seen that ran big flattish rear tires
all handled like shit on windy curvy roads. Looking
at his pictures, doesn't look like he ever leans it over
very far. As long as I never wind up following bikes
like that, I'm fine with them.

"Venture Rider" <dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote in message
news:02fe7729$0$2141$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
> on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:

So on a "big cruiser," the rear wheel never leans over?
Always wondered about that...

Bob M.

On Aug 25, 2:49�pm, "Bob Myers" <nospample...@address.invalid> wrote:

> So on a "big cruiser," the rear wheel never leans over?
> Always wondered about that...

If the motorcycle is never leaned more than about 25 degrees from
vertical,
a car tire on the back will work ok, but will resist turning from a
straight line.

Motorcycles get most of their cornering force from camber thrust, up
to
25 degrees lean angle.

Car suspension geometries work to minimize camber thrust.

Bridgestone explains this so much better than I can, they have
pictures and graphs.

mc.bridgestone.co.jp/pdf/mcintroe.pdf

"Venture Rider" <dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote in message
news:48b30c65$0$17363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
> --
> "What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman



I'm sure you've read nearly everything available on this
topic. But, have you viewed the youtube video demon-
strations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQtlt-HFFoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAHlbSzwjsg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZNoxSblPiU
"that wasn't really dark side ridin', but they'll be needin'
some new tires pretty soon".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnPMbWp4ZGA
"That wasn't dark side either, but he'll probably switch
to a car tire soon".

Sorry! my mistake, that RocketIII *was* runnin' a car
tire. There was several of those videos, but they just
seemed repetitious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA7xrZkmKoU
That same RocketIII goes down while filming the car
tire demonstration. "Boy, that thing sounds like a
tractor".

"Damn, there's a lot of videos of that supercharged
RocketIII. Like you'd need a supercharger on a
RocketIII".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tozvjE6rzhw
"counterpoint".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDx0A7TF18
"What's wrong with that picture"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElgZj4w7PuM
Maybe, you want to consider a run flat tire for your
dark side conversion. That was painful to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfmzBDkXoU
"This thing sounds like a Harley".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmL5QjNZddw
Maybe this guy needs a car tire also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U1uvkucz2E
Using a 10.5" car tire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK-4hYVxXfA
Car tire here?

Venture Rider <dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote:

> >Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
>
> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front.

So? It's still lunacy to use one on anything other than a dragster that
doesn't need to go round corners.

Quite apart from the 90 degree edge between sidewall and tread, car tyre
sidewalls are designed to flex and bulge when you go over bumps. Bike
tyres depend on sidewall rigidity to keep you shiny side up.

As Olson says, the only time for a bike to wear a car tyre is when it's
a sidecar outfit.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

Bob Myers wrote:

> "Venture Rider" wrote:
>> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
>> on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:
>
> So on a "big cruiser," the rear wheel never leans over?
> Always wondered about that...

Ya ever follow a Boss Hoss down the road? (It's an amazing sight.)

But if you look at the pics on their web site, even the 425 HP model has
a roundish rear tire.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.nony.mous@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:g8vbck$joq$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Bob Myers wrote:
>
>> "Venture Rider" wrote:
>>> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
>>> on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:
>>
>> So on a "big cruiser," the rear wheel never leans over?
>> Always wondered about that...
>
> Ya ever follow a Boss Hoss down the road? (It's an amazing sight.)

No, I wouldn't follow one of those close enough to
really observe it.

Bob M.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:00:51 -0700 (PDT), Twibil said:

>On Aug 25, 1:33*pm, Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> > Venture Rider wrote:
>> > > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>> > > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
>> > There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
>> > differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
>> > engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
>> > than I am. *But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
>> > found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
>> > Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>>
>> Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
>
>What? Didn't you know that bikes no longer have to bother with that
>confusing countersteering stuff if you put car tires on 'em?
>
>Thereafter, they turn just like cars; no leaning required.

I'm not saying I'm going to try this but I do think it's interesting
nonetheless. I'm curious to know if anyone here has done it.


From http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/...eDarkSide.html

This guy has been running a car tire on his Valkyrie for quite some
time and here is what he says about that:

----------------------
How does it handle?
I am happy with it. It is very smooth and stable at high speeds, and
for me at least, at very low speeds (full deflection turns for
instance) it is an improvement over the motorcycle tire. Basically,
I've found it to be superior in all conditions.

There are two areas of difference in feel:
It requires active counter-steering to put the bike in a corner. The
Valkyrie has always required a firm hand, and this is not
significantly different. The difference is that on the motorcycle
tire, once the bike was stable in a corner, driver input on the
handlebars is not really needed. The bike will stay in the turn unless
power is applied or removed, or the terrain/surface of the road
changes. With the car tire, the counter-steering input is required the
entire time the bike is in the corner. If it is released, the bike
will straighten up on its own. Those of you that push the twisties and
know how to drag pegs (really know how to turn) will understand it
right away.

The other difference is in what I'll call "bump steer" Varying
terrain, such as a ridge on the road, a track in a dirt road, or an
angle or crown to the road will give much more feedback than they do
on a motorcycle tire. The bike will have the tendency to turn
downhill. At highway speeds this is not an issue (not felt), at lower
speeds, again, it requires a firm hand on the handlebars and the bike
remains well behaved. It is just telling you what it feels on the
road. You feel the steering inputs, you do not have to accept them. I
prefer the feel, as it puts me much more in touch with what's going on
with the road conditions.

The bike turns as aggressively as it ever did. This has not impacted
my speeds or angles of lean in turns. I can still drag pegs when I
want to, and it has not slowed me down a bit. I am much more confident
in wet conditions and with hard braking.
----------------------

--
"What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:00:24 -0400, Venture Rider
<dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote:

>
>I'm not saying I'm going to try this but I do think it's interesting
>nonetheless. I'm curious to know if anyone here has done it.

I think you should be the guinea pig. Pop one on the back of your bike
and report back to us. While you're at it throw one on the front too.
After all if one car tire is a good thing two should be great.

What amazes me is how thousands of competent and experienced
motorcycle riders, over multiple decades have never discovered your
secret.


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.

"Venture Rider" <dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote in message
news:48b30c65$0$17363$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
> --
> "What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman

Most of the guys doing this are trying to save a few bucks on tires,
as the car tires are so much less expensive and they don't like paying
$140+ every 8-12K miles for a new rear.

Secondly, they get to lower the rear end that way and it helps for
guys that have a short inseam.

Finally, they "think" it looks cool. I think we all see the folly in
that.

Motorcycle tires are shaped the way they are for a reason.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:23:51 GMT, Calgary said:

>What amazes me is how thousands of competent and experienced
>motorcycle riders, over multiple decades have never discovered your
>secret.

My secret? I certainly didn't come up with this! Have you checked out
the link I provided? This guy most certainly qualifies as an
experienced motorcycle rider.

--
"What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:52:54 -0400, Venture Rider
<dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:23:51 GMT, Calgary said:
>
>>What amazes me is how thousands of competent and experienced
>>motorcycle riders, over multiple decades have never discovered your
>>secret.
>
>My secret? I certainly didn't come up with this! Have you checked out
>the link I provided? This guy most certainly qualifies as an
>experienced motorcycle rider.

Then hurry up and go buy a couple for your bike.

Let us know how it works for you.


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:47:43 -0400, Venture Rider <dontbother@bogus.dom>
wrote:

>Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".

Hey Venture Rider, go to http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/ and ask
questions. You'll get too much bullshit here from the clowns that think
they're experts and know-it-alls. Yes, I run a CT on my own.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:28:17 -0700, Bob East <bobeast1234@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:47:43 -0400, Venture Rider <dontbother@bogus.dom>
>wrote:
>
>>Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>>and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
>Hey Venture Rider, go to http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/ and ask
>questions. You'll get too much bullshit here from the clowns that think
>they're experts and know-it-alls. Yes, I run a CT on my own.

I agree with Bob VR. Run don't walk to the Darksiders forum. I am sure
you will find the real experts there.


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.

On Aug 25, 7:28*pm, Bob East <bobeast1...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:47:43 -0400, Venture Rider <dontbot...@bogus.dom>
> wrote:
>
> >Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> >and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
> Hey Venture Rider, go tohttp://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/and ask
> questions. You'll get too much bullshit here from the clowns that think
> they're experts and know-it-alls. Yes, I run a CT on my own.

Yeah right...fucking worst idea since the Yugo. I suppose you'll say
we should just start using 747's to go to Jupiter. Dumb idea
period...unless you NEVER ride hard.
--
Keith

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:28:17 -0700, Bob East said:

>On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:47:43 -0400, Venture Rider <dontbother@bogus.dom>
>wrote:
>
>>Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>>and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>
>Hey Venture Rider, go to http://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/ and ask
>questions. You'll get too much bullshit here from the clowns that think
>they're experts and know-it-alls. Yes, I run a CT on my own.

What do you ride?

--
"What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman

On Aug 25, 7:06*pm, "S'mee" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah right...fucking worst idea since the Yugo. I suppose you'll say
> we should just start using 747's to go to Jupiter.

Hey! My brother-in-law is *firmly* convinced that the now-retired
SR-71 Blackbird -an air-breathing airplane- was capable of flying to
the moon and back, and no amount of gentle logic will pursuade him
otherwise.

My Aunt Marguerite believed that the toilet paper oil filter she'd
installed in her car meant that she would never have to change her
car's oil again, and she kept right on believing that even after the
engine fried it's bottom end bearings.

Once some people get what they think is a brilliant idea stuck in
their heads they'll never give it up, no matter what.

Remember Hen3ry?

On Aug 25, 9:02*pm, Twibil <jose.now...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 7:06*pm, "S'mee" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yeah right...fucking worst idea since the Yugo. I suppose you'll say
> > we should just start using 747's to go to Jupiter.
>
> Hey! My brother-in-law is *firmly* convinced that the now-retired
> SR-71 Blackbird -an air-breathing airplane- was capable of flying to
> the moon and back, and no amount of gentle logic will pursuade him
> otherwise.
>
> My Aunt Marguerite believed that the toilet paper oil filter she'd
> installed in her car meant that she would never have to change her
> car's oil again, and she kept right on believing that even after the
> engine fried it's bottom end bearings.
>
> Once some people get what they think is a brilliant idea stuck in
> their heads they'll never give it up, no matter what.
>
> Remember Hen3ry?

Oh sure bring Hen3y up why don't you. Any way it wasn't the SR-71 it
was the X-15 and they never landed, just orbited.
--
Keith

On Aug 25, 9:03�pm, "S'mee" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Oh sure bring Hen3y up why don't you. Any way it wasn't the SR-71 it
> was the X-15 and they never landed, just orbited.

You're as full of shit as a Christmas goose. I'm the only person I
know who has ever seen an X-15, other than the one in the Smithsonian.

I've actually *smelled* the X-15. I could tell it was in the hangar
from the moment I walked in the front door, the whole facility smelled
of ammonia.

I worked on the B-52 mother ships and actually saw some of the first
X-15
flights with the smaller 8-barrel engines. It was not as fast as an
F-104 fighter with the small engine.

I even went on an X-15 support flight to a dry lake near Hawthorne,
NV, which was one of the recovery sites if the rocket engine failed to
start.

Nevada to Edwards AFB was the limit of the X-15's range.

On Aug 25, 9:03*pm, "S'mee" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Oh sure bring Hen3y up why don't you.

Could be worse. I didn't invoke Hitler. (Quite.)

> Any way it wasn't the SR-71 it
> was the X-15 and they never landed, just orbited.

*THAT* must be it! Of course it'll still never convince my brother-in-
law, but he's plumber so he's too useful to just shoot out of hand.

Decisions, decisions...

On Aug 25, 10:32*pm, JREwing <Buteo.linea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 25, 9:03 pm, "S'mee" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh sure bring Hen3y up why don't you. Any way it wasn't the SR-71 it
> > was the X-15 and they never landed, just orbited.
>
> You're as full of shit as a Christmas goose. I'm the only person I
> know who has ever seen an X-15, other than the one in the Smithsonian.

Oh really numbnuts? The one at Wright Patterson AFB sure felt real
when I touched it...crawled under it and generally pestered that fine
piece of history. The B-36 was more overwhelming than standing on the
edge of the North rim of the Grand Canyon.

> I've actually *smelled* the X-15. I could tell it was in the hangar
> from the moment I walked in the front door, the whole facility smelled
> of ammonia.

Sadly the one I saw was cleaned up.

> I worked on the B-52 mother ships and actually saw some of the first
> X-15
> flights with the smaller 8-barrel engines. It was not as fast as an
> F-104 fighter with the small engine.

I actually envy you that experience. But I still treasure ridng in a
UH-1H on it's side at 100' then going for a NOE joy ride, sitting on
the edge of the door...best roller coaster EVER!!! Damn pilot had
flown slicks and medivac in 'nam.

> I even went on an X-15 support flight to a dry lake near Hawthorne,
> NV, which was one of the recovery sites if the rocket engine failed to
> start.

Ah one of those "I hope nothing happens" jobs.

> Nevada to Edwards AFB was the limit of the X-15's range.

Yep and I used to live 12 miles from the end of the runway at
McConnel. At one of the airshows we got to watch a BUFF that had just
finished a MWO do a max take off. My understanding is that all they
had onboard was enough avionics to fly VFR and enough fuel for two
trips around the pattern. I never new it could go almost vertical...

I've also done a walk around of the XB70. Absolutely impractical for
what it was intended for. BUT who cares! Damn thing blew the paint off
on the first flight! What's not to love about a Mach 3+ aircraft.
Airforce should have kept it flying. Giving the occasional politician
a ride, one trip to Mach 3 and your funding is set.
--
Keith

Venture Rider <dontbother@bogus.dom> wrote:

> This has not impacted
> my speeds or angles of lean in turns. I can still drag pegs when I
> want to, and it has not slowed me down a bit.

So the bike has crap ground clearance and he rides like a snail.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

JREwing <Buteo.lineatus@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Oh sure bring Hen3y up why don't you. Any way it wasn't the SR-71 it
> > was the X-15 and they never landed, just orbited.
>
> You're as full of shit as a Christmas goose. I'm the only person I
> know who has ever seen an X-15, other than the one in the Smithsonian.

Er. someone needs to develop a sense of humour here. Either that, or a
blow-job from the Emoticon Fairy.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."

On Aug 25, 9:32*pm, JREwing <Buteo.linea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nevada to Edwards AFB was the limit of the X-15's range.

Um, yes, but they weren't going for range, and the X-15's peak
altitude of 67 miles was well beyond all but 0.00003% of the Earth's
atmosphere, making it the first real spacecraft; and it still beats
SpaceShipOne's record of 62.2 miles that was set some 40 years later.
It also still holds the all-time speed record for winged aircraft at
Mach 6.72.

Pretty impressive for a little rocket ship that was built clear back
in the 1950s.

"Steve L" <srl1215@comcast.net> wrote

> Most of the guys doing this are trying to save a few bucks on tires,
> as the car tires are so much less expensive and they don't like paying
> $140+ every 8-12K miles for a new rear.
>
Yet they don't mind paying ~ $15K for the bike in the first place.
Something wrong with that picture.
Penny wise and pound foolish.