Today was Change The Fluids Day, since I had to replace the rear brake
caliper anyway. I figured it would be a good time to change the brake and
clutch fluid. It was getting pretty nasty...my guess is the brake/clutch
fluid is, like the rest of the bike, vintage 1997.

I'm pretty good with brakes, but this is the first time I've messed around
with a hydraulic clutch, motorcycle or car.

There were a couple issues, but after going through the service manual and a
couple sites, I finally got things working again.

One problem I had was what I believe ot be a loose bleeder bolt, causing air
to enter the plastic tube. I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
when installing the bleeders can prevent this. Anybody here had success
with this? Do you use teflon tape on other fittings? How about teflon
paste?

I plan on completely rebuilding the brake and clutch systems this winter,
along with a bunch of other long neglected maintenance.

Another issue, not sure it's a problem, is location of the 'friction zone'.
Before, the clutch would start to engage when the lever was about half way
out. Now it starts grabbing when the lever is about 1/2 inch from the grip.

I had an idea that things would work better with fresh fluid and a good
bleeding, but I'm not sure this is an improvement, lacking experience with
more than a couple bikes.

I know there might still be a little air in the system, so I plan to bleed
the system again tonight after things settle some.

Still, I'd like to know just how one should expect a lever to travel before
getting some action from the clutch.

Thanks in advance...

CS

On Jun 28, 2:08*pm, "CS" <donts...@sears.com> wrote:

> One problem I had was what I believe ot be a loose bleeder bolt, causing air
> to enter the plastic tube. *I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
> when installing the bleeders can prevent this. *Anybody here had success
> with this?

No, putting teflon tape on the threads is silly, because the threads
aren't what seals the brake fluid in.

The only place you'd want to use teflon tape would be on oil or
coolant fitting threads.

Remove the bleeder bolt completely and make sure that the conical
sealing end isn't damaged or corroded and that there isn't a bunch of
crystallized brake fluid in the bottom of the hole the bleeder came
out of.

> Another issue, not sure it's a problem, is location of the 'friction zone'.
> Before, the clutch would start to engage when the lever was about half way
> out. *Now it starts grabbing when the lever is about 1/2 inch from the grip.

I'm not sure what you mean by "engage". The normal mode of operation
of the clutch is engaged, and it's engaged when you let the lever
loose.

But it sounds like you still have some air in the system.

It's a PITA to get all the air out. The bleeder bolt doesn't work well
at all.

What I do is remove the slave cylinder and push the piston in with a
screw driver.

I let the slave cylinder hang straight down and avoid having any loops
or bends in the clutch fluid hose where air can accumulate.

I also position the master cylinder reservoir so it's at the high
point of the system and the hose fitting never points upward.

Then I pump the clutch lever until no bubbles or fizz comes up the
hose into the reservoir.

> Still, I'd like to know just how one should expect a lever to travel before
> getting some action from the clutch.

Not knowing when the clutch will disengage or engage is the bugaboo of
the hydraulic clutch release mechanism, it depends on how well you've
bled the system...

CS <dontshop@sears.com> wrote:

> I know there might still be a little air in the system, so I plan to bleed
> the system again tonight after things settle some.

Having bled the system, remove the master cylinder reservoir cap, tape
back the clutch lever, and leave for 24 hours.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER Coo, down to just five bikes!
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Jun 28, 5:08*pm, "CS" <donts...@sears.com> wrote:
> Today was Change The Fluids Day, since I had to replace the rear brake
> caliper anyway. *I figured it would be a good time to change the brake and
> clutch fluid. *It was getting pretty nasty...my guess is the brake/clutch
> fluid is, like the rest of the bike, vintage 1997.
>
> I'm pretty good with brakes, but this is the first time I've messed around
> with a hydraulic clutch, motorcycle or car.
>
> There were a couple issues, but after going through the service manual and a
> couple sites, I finally got things working again.
>
> One problem I had was what I believe ot be a loose bleeder bolt, causing air
> to enter the plastic tube. *I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
> when installing the bleeders can prevent this. *Anybody here had success
> with this? *Do you use teflon tape on other fittings? *How about teflon
> paste?
>
> I plan on completely rebuilding the brake and clutch systems this winter,
> along with a bunch of other long neglected maintenance.
>
> Another issue, not sure it's a problem, is location of the 'friction zone'.
> Before, the clutch would start to engage when the lever was about half way
> out. *Now it starts grabbing when the lever is about 1/2 inch from the grip.
>
> I had an idea that things would work better with fresh fluid and a good
> bleeding, but I'm not sure this is an improvement, lacking experience with
> more than a couple bikes.
>
> I know there might still be a little air in the system, so I plan to bleed
> the system again tonight after things settle some.
>
> Still, I'd like to know just how one should expect a lever to travel before
> getting some action from the clutch.
>
> Thanks in advance...

http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?item=PAR_DS-310207

Use it to suck on the banjo and have someone pour fluid into the
reservoir. Don't ever let the reservoir become empty. Keep sucking
until fluid coming out is clean then tighten banjo bolt. Difficult
for air to sneak in this way. Pump lever a few times and system
should be good to go.

>I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
> when installing the bleeders can prevent this.

I'm a machinery maintenance technician / maintenance electrician, and in
my experience teflon tape and hydraulics do not mix. I'm sure it would
be the same with motorcycle hydraulic items. Banjo bolts have sealing
washers and hydraulic fittings have tapered sealing fittings that work
well.

On 29 June, 11:53, AWR7MM...@webtv.net (Mike Corey) wrote:
> >I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
> > when installing the bleeders can prevent this.
>
> I'm a machinery maintenance technician / maintenance electrician, and in
> my experience teflon tape and hydraulics do not mix. I'm sure it would
> be the same with motorcycle hydraulic items. Banjo bolts have sealing
> washers and hydraulic fittings have tapered sealing fittings that work
> well.

I wouldn't rely on a tape bodge on something as crucial as brakes and
anyway, as Krusty says, the threads on the bleed nipple (as we call it
on this side of the pond) don't do the actual sealing anyway.

On Jun 29, 5:19*am, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 29 June, 11:53, AWR7MM...@webtv.net (Mike Corey) wrote:
>
> > >I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
> > > when installing the bleeders can prevent this.
>
> > I'm a machinery maintenance technician / maintenance electrician, and in
> > my experience teflon tape and hydraulics do not mix. I'm sure it would
> > be the same with motorcycle hydraulic items. Banjo bolts have sealing
> > washers and hydraulic fittings have tapered sealing fittings that work
> > well.
>
> I wouldn't rely on a tape bodge on something as crucial as brakes and
> anyway, as Krusty says, the threads on the bleed nipple (as we call it
> on this side of the pond) don't do the actual sealing anyway.

the teflon tape on the nipples (that sounds SO wrong) isn't for
sealing...it's to facilitate loosening prior changing the fluid. Used
to use anti-seize compounds but have found the tape is better for the
application.

What do I know? But it works for me.
--
Keith

Schiffner wrote:
> On Jun 29, 5:19 am, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 29 June, 11:53, AWR7MM...@webtv.net (Mike Corey) wrote:
>>
>>>> I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
>>>> when installing the bleeders can prevent this.
>>> I'm a machinery maintenance technician / maintenance electrician, and in
>>> my experience teflon tape and hydraulics do not mix. I'm sure it would
>>> be the same with motorcycle hydraulic items. Banjo bolts have sealing
>>> washers and hydraulic fittings have tapered sealing fittings that work
>>> well.
>> I wouldn't rely on a tape bodge on something as crucial as brakes and
>> anyway, as Krusty says, the threads on the bleed nipple (as we call it
>> on this side of the pond) don't do the actual sealing anyway.
>
> the teflon tape on the nipples (that sounds SO wrong) isn't for
> sealing...it's to facilitate loosening prior changing the fluid. Used
> to use anti-seize compounds but have found the tape is better for the
> application.
>
> What do I know? But it works for me.

The only reason for using Teflon® tape on bleeder nipples that makes any
sense to me is so that air doesn't leak past the threads when you are
using a vacuum pump to bleed the brakes and want to avoid seeing any air
bubbles. Note that having air bubbles in the line to the vacuum pump
doesn't have anything to do with there actually being air in the system.
If seeing bubbles doesn't bother you, there's no reason to use the tape.

On Jun 29, 7:24*am, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> Schiffner wrote:
> > On Jun 29, 5:19 am, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 29 June, 11:53, AWR7MM...@webtv.net (Mike Corey) wrote:
>
> >>>> I've heard putting teflon tape on the threads
> >>>> when installing the bleeders can prevent this.
> >>> I'm a machinery maintenance technician / maintenance electrician, andin
> >>> my experience teflon tape and hydraulics do not mix. I'm sure it would
> >>> be the same with motorcycle hydraulic items. Banjo bolts have sealing
> >>> washers and hydraulic fittings have tapered sealing fittings that work
> >>> well.
> >> I wouldn't rely on a tape bodge on something as crucial as brakes and
> >> anyway, as Krusty says, the threads on the bleed nipple (as we call it
> >> on this side of the pond) don't do the actual sealing anyway.
>
> > the teflon tape on the nipples (that sounds SO wrong) isn't for
> > sealing...it's to facilitate loosening prior changing the fluid. Used
> > to use anti-seize compounds but have found the tape is better for the
> > application.
>
> > What do I know? But it works for me.
>
> The only reason for using Teflon® tape on bleeder nipples that makes any
> sense to me is so that air doesn't leak past the threads when you are
> using a vacuum pump to bleed the brakes and want to avoid seeing any air
> bubbles. *Note that having air bubbles in the line to the vacuum pump
> doesn't have anything to do with there actually being air in the system.
> If seeing bubbles doesn't bother you, there's no reason to use the tape.

Ah thankyou sirrah! I'd forgot that part...mixing too much concrete
today.
--
Keith