There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.

Sad on any number of fronts... 20 year NAVY vet, due to retire this
summer from civilian service, wife left behind.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...storyid=103620

The threads here mentioned folks never looking in the rear view
mirrors when stopped, instead resting feet on the ground just looking
around.

That's damn good adivce - look in the rearview mirrors as part of your
constant scanning whether you are moving or at a standstill. As they
teach in the MSF, keep it in gear and be ready to take off if you see
something coming.

That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.

Greg

oasysco wrote:
> That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.

Experience. Yes, particularly when the MC mirrors are convex, vehicles
appear smaller, so they're harder to judge. To get a feel for what the
mirrors are telling you, calibrate with a direct over-the-shoulder view.
When you're in a situation that lets you do it safely, take a quick
look over your shoulder and compare it with what you're seeing in the
mirrors. You'll soon have your eyeballs calibrated.
--
sjs

On Apr 4, 9:48*am, "St. John Smythe" <sin...@n4vu.com> wrote:
> oasysco wrote:
> > That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> > to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> > It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> > guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>
> Experience. *

So, I have to be hit a few times before I get the hang of it? <g>

>Yes, particularly when the MC mirrors are convex, vehicles
> appear smaller, so they're harder to judge. *To get a feel for what the
> mirrors are telling you, calibrate with a direct over-the-shoulder view.
> * When you're in a situation that lets you do it safely, take a quick
> look over your shoulder and compare it with what you're seeing in the
> mirrors. *You'll soon have your eyeballs calibrated.

I do go over the shoulder (more to the side of the top of my shoulder)
and have nearly a 360 degree view around me using peripheral vision
and mirrors.

I'm afraid this problem is related to mirror distortion affecting
depth-perception, so I'll give your idea a shot and maybe my brain can
compensate.

Greg

> --
> sjs

oasysco wrote:
> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.

LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!


>
> Sad on any number of fronts... 20 year NAVY vet, due to retire this
> summer from civilian service, wife left behind.
>
> http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...storyid=103620
>
> The threads here mentioned folks never looking in the rear view
> mirrors when stopped, instead resting feet on the ground just looking
> around.
>
> That's damn good adivce - look in the rearview mirrors as part of your
> constant scanning whether you are moving or at a standstill. As they
> teach in the MSF, keep it in gear and be ready to take off if you see
> something coming.
>
> That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>
> Greg

oasysco wrote:
> I'm afraid this problem is related to mirror distortion affecting
> depth-perception,

Exactly, which is the reason you will want to build experience.

--
sjs

"oasysco" <wilderkommen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1afd8f86-7d0c-43ab-abeb-65b4643178ea@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.

I agree with you. In fact, it should be federally mandated for bikes that
the mirrors have to be out far enough to see straight behind, and have to be
big enough.

The Suzuki Katana I just bought is bad in this regard -- I just bought
mirror extenders. IMHO the default configuration of the mirrors is unsafe.

My feeling about riding is that when slowing in traffic, a checklist item
has to be that the person behind you is also slowing. If the traffic behind
you is distant but will eventually have to stop, then one should plot an
escape vector and use it if the traffic is carrying too much speed too
close.

I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident. Given enough
stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is human. The problem
is that a fender bender to another auto is something far worse to a
motorcycle.

On Apr 4, 9:11*am, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.com> wrote:
> "oasysco" <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1afd8f86-7d0c-43ab-abeb-65b4643178ea@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> > to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> > It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> > guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>
> I agree with you. *In fact, it should be federally mandated for bikes that
> the mirrors have to be out far enough to see straight behind, and have to be
> big enough.
>
> The Suzuki Katana I just bought is bad in this regard -- I just bought
> mirror extenders. *IMHO the default configuration of the mirrors is unsafe.
>
> My feeling about riding is that when slowing in traffic, a checklist item
> has to be that the person behind you is also slowing. *If the traffic behind
> you is distant but will eventually have to stop, then one should plot an
> escape vector and use it if the traffic is carrying too much speed too
> close.
>
> I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident. *Given enough
> stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is human. *The problem
> is that a fender bender to another auto is something far worse to a
> motorcycle.

And it's exactly the reason I *always* filter to the front of the
line...
--
Rayvan

On Apr 4, 10:52*am, "St. John Smythe" <sin...@n4vu.com> wrote:
> oasysco wrote:
> > I'm afraid this problem is related to mirror distortion affecting
> > depth-perception,
>
> Exactly, which is the reason you will want to build experience.

I was referring more to low light dusk/dawn/nighttime experiences than
daytime. Depth percpetion and low light/nighttime vision do not work
well together to judge headlights coming at you from behind in a
mirror. Experience might help and looking back, but that (lack of)
depth perception due to the mirror's distortion wreak havoc on my eyes
at night.

Greg


>
> --
> sjs

On Apr 4, 12:11*pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.com> wrote:
> "oasysco" <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1afd8f86-7d0c-43ab-abeb-65b4643178ea@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> > to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> > It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> > guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>
> I agree with you. *In fact, it should be federally mandated for bikes that
> the mirrors have to be out far enough to see straight behind, and have to be
> big enough.

And the trend is towards dinky little, weird shaped mirrors on
"customized" cruisers and sportbikes. My state only requires one
mirror for inspection and I'm not sure that there is a minimum size.

For turn signals, there is a minimum width that the signals must be
apart, but they can be ridiculously small in size. And if that
troubles the owner, he can take them off altogether and still pass
inspection.

>
> The Suzuki Katana I just bought is bad in this regard -- I just bought
> mirror extenders. *IMHO the default configuration of the mirrors is unsafe.
>
> My feeling about riding is that when slowing in traffic, a checklist item
> has to be that the person behind you is also slowing. *If the traffic behind
> you is distant but will eventually have to stop, then one should plot an
> escape vector and use it if the traffic is carrying too much speed too
> close.

Yup. Agreed and something I always do, but as you age, depth
perception and night vision get worse. That is, try judging how fast a
car is coming at you and how far away it is when you only have the
headlights and a street light to help judge distance and size at
night. That's what I was talking about when I said I had a problem.
Daytime, I can the shape of the car getting bigger in my mirrors.
Nighttime, not so well.

>
> I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident. *

Well, in this case, the car driver didn't even slow down before she
plowed into the back of the GW.

> Given enough
> stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is human. *The problem
> is that a fender bender to another auto is something far worse to a
> motorcycle.

Greg

On Apr 4, 7:36 am, oasysco <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>
> Sad on any number of fronts... 20 year NAVY vet, due to retire this
> summer from civilian service, wife left behind.
>
> http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...spx?storyid=10...
>
What was he wearing at the time and could you share the nature of the
(fatal) injuries sustained?
Thanks.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:48:14 -0400, St. John Smythe wrote:

> When you're in a situation that lets you do it safely, take a quick
> look over your shoulder and compare it with what you're seeing in
> the mirrors. You'll soon have your eyeballs calibrated.

I think you should always keep an eye on vehicles behind you through
your mirrors and not just when you're stopped. Did you know the
two-second rule works in reverse on good pavement in good conditions?
Pick a spot on the pavement (bridge deck joint or light pole shadow).
As you pass the point, count "one, one hundred thousand one, one
hundred thousand two." If the vehicle behind you passes the same
point before you're done counting (and he usually does), he's too
close (and he usually is) regardless of how he appears in your
mirrors. You have a number of choices:

o Tap your brakes, indicating an intent to slow down. He may see your
brake light flicker, take the hint, and pass you.

o Roll off the throttle. This will decrease his following distance.
It may make him uncomfortable enough to go around.

o On a multi-lane highway, change lanes. Let the jerk pass on your
right if he wants to.

o Turn off. Don't let him follow you. At this point you don't know
what he's up to.

o If you are reluctant to turn off in unfamiliar territory, continue
to slow down. This gives you more time to react to anything that can
occur in front of you. I think there is no lower limit to how slow
and how safe you want to ride when you have a tailgater on your ass.
About half the time, even in open country, a tailgater will refuse to
pass until I slow below half the speed of prevailing traffic (30 mph).
When they finally do, they are invariably yakking on a cell phone. I
always think they were just drafting off me because they didn't have
the excess alertness to regulate their own pace.

o Finally, if the shoulder is solid and even and you have slowed
sufficiently, pull off. I have yet to have a tailgater follow me onto
the shoulder.

--
... Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
... 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
... Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
... 50° — Wind NNW 6 mph

On Apr 4, 2:04 pm, Chuck Rhode <CRh...@LacusVeris.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:48:14 -0400, St. John Smythe wrote:
> > When you're in a situation that lets you do it safely, take a quick
> > look over your shoulder and compare it with what you're seeing in
> > the mirrors. You'll soon have your eyeballs calibrated.
>
> I think you should always keep an eye on vehicles behind you through
> your mirrors and not just when you're stopped. Did you know the
> two-second rule works in reverse on good pavement in good conditions?

That's a good ponit and one I plan to sue the next tie I'm ticketed
for doing 80 in a 45mph zone... Officer, I was maintaining 2 seconds
of distance between me and the guy behind me - Now seriously, the
reverse 2 second rule is an excellent model to use.

> Pick a spot on the pavement (bridge deck joint or light pole shadow).
> As you pass the point, count "one, one hundred thousand one, one
> hundred thousand two." If the vehicle behind you passes the same
> point before you're done counting (and he usually does), he's too
> close (and he usually is) regardless of how he appears in your
> mirrors. You have a number of choices:
>
> o Tap your brakes, indicating an intent to slow down. He may see your
> brake light flicker, take the hint, and pass you.
>
> o Roll off the throttle. This will decrease his following distance.
> It may make him uncomfortable enough to go around.
>
> o On a multi-lane highway, change lanes. Let the jerk pass on your
> right if he wants to.
>
> o Turn off. Don't let him follow you. At this point you don't know
> what he's up to.
>
> o If you are reluctant to turn off in unfamiliar territory, continue
> to slow down. This gives you more time to react to anything that can
> occur in front of you. I think there is no lower limit to how slow
> and how safe you want to ride when you have a tailgater on your ass.
> About half the time, even in open country, a tailgater will refuse to
> pass until I slow below half the speed of prevailing traffic (30 mph).
> When they finally do, they are invariably yakking on a cell phone. I
> always think they were just drafting off me because they didn't have
> the excess alertness to regulate their own pace.
>
> o Finally, if the shoulder is solid and even and you have slowed
> sufficiently, pull off. I have yet to have a tailgater follow me onto
> the shoulder.
>
> --
> .. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
> .. 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
> .. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
> .. 50° -- Wind NNW 6 mph

Greg

On Apr 4, 1:39*pm, osamahornifu...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 4, 7:36 am, oasysco <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote:> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
> > approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
> > happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
> > the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
> > accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
> > construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
> > the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>
> > Sad on any number of fronts... 20 year NAVY vet, due to retire this
> > summer from civilian service, wife left behind.
>
> >http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...spx?storyid=10....
>
> What was he wearing at the time and could you share the nature of the
> (fatal) injuries sustained?

I don't know what he was wearing at the time and I don't know the
exact trauma he underwent except that he left the motorcycle. Here's a
little mroe infobut I don't think it'll answer your questions:
http://www.hrot.org/

Greg

> Thanks.

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
news:65mtdsF2gucssU1@mid.individual.net...
> oasysco wrote:
>> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
>> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
>> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
>> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
>> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>
> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!

And how do you know the driver of the vehicle isn't deaf?




--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

In article <B1vJj.24353$Re3.7323@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>, Beav wrote:
>
>"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
>news:65mtdsF2gucssU1@mid.individual.net...
>> oasysco wrote:
>>> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
>>> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
>>> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
>>> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
>>> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>
>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>
>And how do you know the driver of the vehicle isn't deaf?

Maybe it was loud pipes that made him unaware of the vehicle approaching
from behind him? Never quite understood why motorcyclists would want to
make it more difficult to hear what was around them.

"Rayvan" <rvannuland@cachevision.com> wrote

>> I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident. Given
>> enough
>> stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is human. The problem
>> is that a fender bender to another auto is something far worse to a
>> motorcycle.

> And it's exactly the reason I *always* filter to the front of the
> line...

Good idea. Me too. But if you happen to be in the US, it's only legal to do
so in California.

When I'm riding out of State and come up behind a group of stopped cars, I
always position the bike off to one side of the lane or the other so that I
can escape past the car ahead of me should something suddenly loom up in my
mirrors.

I also keep the bike in gear and ready to accelerate at need.

So far, so good.

Brent P wrote:

> In article <B1vJj.24353$Re3.7323@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>, Beav wrote:
> >
> >"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
> > news:65mtdsF2gucssU1@mid.individual.net...
> >> oasysco wrote:
> >>> There were some posts here just recently about watching for
> vehicles >>> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that
> home, this >>> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the
> president of >>> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and
> rode a GW. The >>> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a
> slowdown due to a >>> construction zone, a lady behind him never
> slowed down, plowing into >>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and
> killing him and injuring 6 others.
> > >
> >> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
> >
> > And how do you know the driver of the vehicle isn't deaf?
>
> Maybe it was loud pipes that made him unaware of the vehicle
> approaching from behind him? Never quite understood why
> motorcyclists would want to make it more difficult to hear what was
> around them.

Hear what? The gentle tinkle of church bells ringing, the wistful sighs
of schoolgirls as they see leather clad bikers going by?



--
Lozzo
Suzuki SV650S K5
Honda CBR600 FW trackbike
Yamaha SR250 Spazz-Trakka
Suzuki GSXR750 L
Suzuki TS50X
Suzuki TS50X

Brent P wrote:

> In article <B1vJj.24353$Re3.7323@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>, Beav wrote:
>
>>"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote :snip


POOFTER Jonez is a not so well known homosexual that lives in Canada
after escaping the USA for felony child abuse.
However, he IS a WELL KNOWN retard on USENET.

"Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in message
news:B1vJj.24353$Re3.7323@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
> news:65mtdsF2gucssU1@mid.individual.net...
>> oasysco wrote:
>>> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
>>> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
>>> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
>>> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
>>> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>
>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>
> And how do you know the driver of the vehicle isn't deaf?

As well as blind.


--
Dave
ex Motorcycle Maintenance Workshop
http://tinyurl.com/4mhaw

On Apr 4, 12:36 pm, oasysco <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 4, 1:39 pm, osamahornifu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Apr 4, 7:36 am, oasysco <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote:> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
> > > approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
> > > happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
> > > the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
> > > accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
> > > construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
> > > the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>
> > > Sad on any number of fronts... 20 year NAVY vet, due to retire this
> > > summer from civilian service, wife left behind.
>
> > >http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/l...spx?storyid=10...
>
> > What was he wearing at the time and could you share the nature of the
> > (fatal) injuries sustained?
>
> I don't know what he was wearing at the time and I don't know the
> exact trauma he underwent except that he left the motorcycle. Here's a
> little mroe infobut I don't think it'll answer your questions:http://www.hrot.org/
>

If I have to extrapolate from the pictures then it'd seem that he was
the member of the "Gold Wind owners are exempt from crashing and laws
of physics"
club. Of course if he was crashed between the cars then it's a moot
point to discuss but, if he was thrown clear of the crunch and died on
impact then we should have this discussion (if you can procure some
data).

Anyhow, sorry to hear about the loss regardless.

"Dave Emerson" <Dave_dot_Emerson@LineOne.net> wrote in message
news:ft60dj$pds$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in message
> news:B1vJj.24353$Re3.7323@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
>> news:65mtdsF2gucssU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> oasysco wrote:
>>>> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
>>>> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
>>>> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
>>>> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
>>>> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>>
>>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>>
>> And how do you know the driver of the vehicle isn't deaf?
>
> As well as blind.

That part is obvious.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

"David T. Ashley" <dta@e3ft.com> wrote in message
news:UqadnZfdCdLTzmvanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> "oasysco" <wilderkommen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1afd8f86-7d0c-43ab-abeb-65b4643178ea@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
>> to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
>> It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
>> guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>
> I agree with you. In fact, it should be federally mandated for bikes that
> the mirrors have to be out far enough to see straight behind, and have to
> be big enough.

Oh yeah. We must make more laws and then when we're finiished, make some
more. Don't you have the freedom f choice in your world?
>
> The Suzuki Katana I just bought is bad in this regard -- I just bought
> mirror extenders. IMHO the default configuration of the mirrors is
> unsafe.

Rubbish. The mirrors on a Katana are better than they are on a lot of other
bikes.
>
> My feeling about riding is that when slowing in traffic, a checklist item
> has to be that the person behind you is also slowing. If the traffic
> behind you is distant but will eventually have to stop, then one should
> plot an escape vector and use it if the traffic is carrying too much speed
> too close.
>
> I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident.

Well thank fuck the plolice might. And the insurance company if it's your
bike and you.

> Given enough stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is human.

So that makes it acceptable?

> The problem is that a fender bender to another auto is something far worse
> to a motorcycle.

Really?



--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

On Apr 4, 1:07*pm, "P. Roehling" <nowayj...@uh-uh.edu> wrote:

> When I'm riding out of State and come up behind a group of stopped cars, I
> always position the bike off to one side of the lane or the other so that I
> can escape past the car ahead of me should something suddenly loom up in my
> mirrors.

Definitely the single, most important reason to stop on one side of
the lane or the other.

On Apr 4, 3:58*pm, "Beav" <beavis.origi...@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote:
> "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.com> wrote in messagenews:UqadnZfdCdLTzmvanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@gigan ews.com...
>
> > "oasysco" <wilderkom...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:1afd8f86-7d0c-43ab-abeb-65b4643178ea@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
> >> to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
> >> It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
> >> guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>
> > I agree with you. *In fact, it should be federally mandated for bikes that
> > the mirrors have to be out far enough to see straight behind, and have to
> > be big enough.
>
> Oh yeah. We must make more laws and then when we're finiished, make some
> more. Don't you have the freedom f choice in your world?

Sure we do. We have the feedom to put patently unsafe mirrors on our
vehicles and to delete turn signals entirely and substitute hand
signals. Otoh, consumers have come to expect a certain level of
mandatory safety equipment on motor vehicles as equipped by the oem
manufacturer, and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the
mirrors to meet certain minimum levels of usefulness. Just in case
one doesn't want to exercise one's freedom to be stupid.

> > The Suzuki Katana I just bought is bad in this regard -- I just bought
> > mirror extenders. *IMHO the default configuration of the mirrors is
> > unsafe.
>
> Rubbish. The mirrors on a Katana are better than they are on a lot of other
> bikes.

The fact that there are mirrors out there that are worse certainly
doesn't mean the Katana mirrors are adequate.

> > My feeling about riding is that when slowing in traffic, a checklist item
> > has to be that the person behind you is also slowing. *If the traffic
> > behind you is distant but will eventually have to stop, then one should
> > plot an escape vector and use it if the traffic is carrying too much speed
> > too close.
>
> > I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident.
>
> Well thank fuck the plolice might. And the insurance company if it's your
> bike and you.

The car driver is at fault for not paying proper attention. The car
driver, if they stop (or are caught) will be held legally
responsible. It is a *good* thing when a motorcycle rider is alert
enough and has enough presence of mind to get the hell out of the way
of the at-fault driver in time to prevent an accident at all.

> > Given enough stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is human.
>
> So that makes it acceptable?

Of course it is. Unless you think there is some way to create
paradise on earth where no humans will ever make a mistake ever again,
then human mistakes are acceptable.

> > The problem is that a fender bender to another auto is something far worse
> > to a motorcycle.
>
> Really?

Who put the glass shards in your coffee this morning?

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote
>>As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>
> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>

Oh fuck you, shit for brains.

The loudest bike ever made is pretty much whisper quiet when decelerating,
as long as it's not backfiring.
Sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing will
save you.

In article <%JwJj.109$FF6.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>, Who Me? wrote:
>
>"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote
>>>As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>
>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>>
>
>Oh fuck you, shit for brains.
>
>The loudest bike ever made is pretty much whisper quiet when decelerating,
>as long as it's not backfiring.

Years ago I had a neighbor who's boyfriend would idle his motorcycle
outside early on saturday and sunday mornings. It was loud enough to
disturb my sleep.

"Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote in message
news:%JwJj.109$FF6.70@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.. .
>
> "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote
>>>As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>
>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>>
>
> Oh fuck you, shit for brains.
>
> The loudest bike ever made is pretty much whisper quiet when decelerating,
> as long as it's not backfiring.

I wouldn't go THAT far. My little 750 VN sounds like a Merlin with a fuck
off big prop on it when I throttle back.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

Beav wrote:
> "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
> news:65mtdsF2gucssU1@mid.individual.net...
>> oasysco wrote:
>>> There were some posts here just recently about watching for vehicles
>>> approaching from behind. To drive the importance of that home, this
>>> happened at the beginning of March. The victim was the president of
>>> the only Honda Riders group i my area. He was 61 and rode a GW. The
>>> accident occured in FLA. As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>
>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>
> And how do you know the driver of the vehicle isn't deaf?

What ?

Who Me? wrote:
> "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote
>>> As traffic approached a slowdown due to a
>>> construction zone, a lady behind him never slowed down, plowing into
>>> the rear of his mc, ejecting and killing him and injuring 6 others.
>>
>> LOUD Pipes could have saved his life!
>>
>
> Oh fuck you, shit for brains.
>
> The loudest bike ever made is pretty much whisper quiet when
> decelerating, as long as it's not backfiring.

You're lying again you lying jackass.

"Beav" <beavis.original@ntlwoxorld.com> wrote in message
news:OLvJj.43592$kN5.1621@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "David T. Ashley" <dta@e3ft.com> wrote in message
> news:UqadnZfdCdLTzmvanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> "oasysco" <wilderkommen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1afd8f86-7d0c-43ab-abeb-65b4643178ea@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> That said, I have a problem with the small mirrors on bikes being able
>>> to tell if a vehicle approaching from the rear is going to hit me.
>>> It's hard to gauge their approach speed and distance. Any ideas you
>>> guys can offer in that respect would be helpful to all of us.
>>
>> I agree with you. In fact, it should be federally mandated for bikes
>> that the mirrors have to be out far enough to see straight behind, and
>> have to be big enough.
>
> Oh yeah. We must make more laws and then when we're finiished, make some
> more. Don't you have the freedom f choice in your world?

I understand civil liberties issues. But federal laws ensure that:

a)The car I drive meets minimum crash standards.

b)It has seat belts.

c)It has proper lighting.

d)The accelerator and brake are in the standard locations.

I don't think that all laws are unnecessary.

>> The Suzuki Katana I just bought is bad in this regard -- I just bought
>> mirror extenders. IMHO the default configuration of the mirrors is
>> unsafe.
>
> Rubbish. The mirrors on a Katana are better than they are on a lot of
> other bikes.

As the other poster pointed out, that is a non sequitur argument. The fact
that there are bikes with worse mirrors doesn't imply that the Katana's
mirrors are OK.

>> My feeling about riding is that when slowing in traffic, a checklist item
>> has to be that the person behind you is also slowing. If the traffic
>> behind you is distant but will eventually have to stop, then one should
>> plot an escape vector and use it if the traffic is carrying too much
>> speed too close.
>>
>> I actually don't blame car drivers for this kind of accident.
>
> Well thank fuck the plolice might. And the insurance company if it's your
> bike and you.
>
>> Given enough stops, sooner or later someone will blow it -- this is
>> human.
>
> So that makes it acceptable?

There is no practical way to prevent humans from making mistakes. If you
have ten million people stopping at lights, some number of them will forget.
That is human.

You've never accidentally gone through a red light?

Even airliners -- which have people flying them who are characteristically
more qualified than the average driver -- have devices to protect against
human error. With most planes, there is the device called a "gear horn".
It is a loud alarm that goes off when the plane is in a landing
configuration but the landing gear aren't deployed. People make mistakes.
That is what we are.

The most important points in my mind are that the woman who killed the
cyclist (a) didn't intend to, and (b) wasn't doing something reckless (like
driving while intoxicated or with a known medical condition). Intent is 90%
of the issue in my mind.