http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news

http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw

Went and said goodbye last night.

Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
over to the music store to show them to some friends. Nobody is sure
just what happen. The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
on some paint markings. Here is something we do know, a quote from
the second link:

"Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as a
result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as well
as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use of
helmets, no matter how short the trip."

I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
view. Gonna miss him

Bruce

On Aug 14, 8:22*pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
> Went and said goodbye last night.
>
> Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
> over to the music store to show them to some friends. *Nobody is sure
> just what happen. *The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
> on some paint markings. *Here is something we do know, a quote from
> the second link:
>
> "Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as a
> result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
> cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
> convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
> quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
> helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as well
> as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use of
> helmets, no matter how short the trip."
>
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. *Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. *Gonna miss him
>
> Bruce

I'm sorry to hear aboutt the loss of your friend and fellow rider. I
won't say anything about the helmet deal since I'll take his death as
a warning.

I get a rash of crap about feeling for lost riders, but it's almost
like a disturbance in the force when I hear of a fellow rider buying
it.

My prayers go out to his family and friends.

Greg

And a fellow musician, dad, and husband to boot. I'm doubly sorry this
happened.
Greg

"Bruce Richmond" <bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:45ac4ae7-9079-4b6a-813a-b0b30db3b13b@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
> Went and said goodbye last night.
>
> Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
> over to the music store to show them to some friends. Nobody is
> sure
> just what happen. The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
> on some paint markings. Here is something we do know, a quote from
> the second link:
>
> "Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as
> a
> result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
> cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
> convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
> quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
> helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as
> well
> as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use
> of
> helmets, no matter how short the trip."
>
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. Gonna miss him
>
> Bruce

Man, that sucks.. just sucks. Helmet, no helmet it is very sad and my
condolences.

Maybe he left his helmet off so he could listen to the pipes better..
who knows.. still sucks.

Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes up in New Hampshire I might take
mine off. I shouldn't I know that.

Again, sorry for your loss. It's a very unforgiving thing we do, this
motorcycle riding.

"Bruce Richmond" <bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:45ac4ae7-9079-4b6a-813a-b0b30db3b13b@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
snippage
>
> Bruce

Bruce, I didn't realize this happened in NH. You from Lebanon? I ride
up there all the time. The 4Aces is my destination diner of choice. I
love the cheeseburgers there and I've got a thing going with Nellie
the waitress. If you stop in there tell her you know Steve.. she'll
know.

Again, sorry for your loss.

Steve

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:39:29 -0400, Steve L wrote:

>> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
>> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
>> view. Gonna miss him

First off, I'm really sorry for your loss. The fact that the tragic
death was caused by something so simple to avoid makes it even worse, I'm
sure.

I always wear a helmet. That said, people should be allowed to take the
risks they want to take with their own lives. I may take my helmet off
for a few miles over the next year, and if I decide to do so, it isn't
anybody else's business. We all know that not wearing a helmet increases
our risk. We also know that getting on the bike in the first place
increases our risk. We know that leaving the house in the morning
increases our risk.

One of the most important freedoms we have, and we want, is the freedom
to assess the risks to our own lives ourselves.


--
Kenneth P. Turvey <kt-usenet@squeakydolphin.com>
http://www.electricsenator.net

We all enter this world in the same way: naked; screaming; soaked in
blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't
have to stop there. -- Dana Gould

"Bruce Richmond" <bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:45ac4ae7-9079-4b6a-813a-b0b30db3b13b@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
> Went and said goodbye last night.
>
> Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
> over to the music store to show them to some friends. Nobody is sure
> just what happen. The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
> on some paint markings. Here is something we do know, a quote from
> the second link:
>
> "Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as a
> result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
> cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
> convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
> quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
> helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as well
> as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use of
> helmets, no matter how short the trip."
>
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. Gonna miss him
>
> Bruce

I am sorry you lost a friend.

Bruce Richmond wrote:
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. Gonna miss him


I live in North Carolina which mandates a helmet at all times. I work in a
hospital in South Carolina which does not. My job is on a combination
orthopedic/neuro unit and I regularly take care of bikers with orthopedic
injuries. The head injuries go to the morgue.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend but I really believe in the helmet. You
only have one head. When you break it you're pretty much done.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Kenneth P. Turvey wrote:
> I always wear a helmet. That said, people should be allowed to take the
> risks they want to take with their own lives. I may take my helmet off
> for a few miles over the next year, and if I decide to do so, it isn't
> anybody else's business. We all know that not wearing a helmet increases
> our risk. We also know that getting on the bike in the first place
> increases our risk. We know that leaving the house in the morning
> increases our risk.
>
> One of the most important freedoms we have, and we want, is the freedom
> to assess the risks to our own lives ourselves.


While I believe in freedom as much as anyone, the thing that has to be
considered is that the price is often paid by others. Look at the pain in the
folks Doug left behind. There are very few people on this earth who have nobody
to miss them.

I see a fair amount of death at work and while I don't always feel sorry for the
one who died, I usually ache for the ones left behind. They're the ones who
suffer.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Aug 14, 8:49*pm, "Steve L" <srl1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Bruce Richmond" <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:45ac4ae7-9079-4b6a-813a-b0b30db3b13b@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> >http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
> snippage
>
> > Bruce
>
> Bruce, I didn't realize this happened in NH. You from Lebanon? I ride
> up there all the time. The 4Aces is my destination diner of choice. I
> love the cheeseburgers there and I've got a thing going with Nellie
> the waitress. If you stop in there tell her you know Steve.. she'll
> know.
>
> Again, sorry for your loss.
>
> Steve

I live in Charlestown, NH. Same little town as Doug, about 40 miles
south of Lebanon.

Bruce

On Aug 14, 9:03*pm, "Kenneth P. Turvey" <kt-use...@squeakydolphin.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:39:29 -0400, Steve L wrote:
> >> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> >> riders choice. *Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> >> view. *Gonna miss him
>
> First off, I'm really sorry for your loss. *The fact that the tragic
> death was caused by something so simple to avoid makes it even worse, I'm
> sure. *
>
> I always wear a helmet. *That said, people should be allowed to take the
> risks they want to take with their own lives. *I may take my helmet off
> for a few miles over the next year, and if I decide to do so, it isn't
> anybody else's business. *We all know that not wearing a helmet increases
> our risk. *We also know that getting on the bike in the first place
> increases our risk. *We know that leaving the house in the morning
> increases our risk. *
>
> One of the most important freedoms we have, and we want, is the freedom
> to assess the risks to our own lives ourselves. *
>

I'm still with you on the right to choose. I only said this makes it
difficult to take that stand, but I still do.

Bruce

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:22:40 -0700 (PDT), Bruce Richmond
<bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote:

>http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
>http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
>Went and said goodbye last night.
>
>Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
>over to the music store to show them to some friends. Nobody is sure
>just what happen. The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
>on some paint markings. Here is something we do know, a quote from
>the second link:
>
>"Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as a
>result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
>cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
>convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
>quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
>helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as well
>as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use of
>helmets, no matter how short the trip."
>
>I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
>riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
>view. Gonna miss him

Sorry for your loss, Bruce.

"Bruce Richmond" <bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:45ac4ae7-9079-4b6a-813a-b0b30db3b13b@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view.

I think what people forget in considering the freedom issues of helmet laws
is that when someone ends up a vegetable in a motorcycle wreck and needs
care for the rest of their life, the rest of society foots the bill.

Or, if someone doesn't end up a vegetable and just sustains ordinary
emergency room injuries, all of the people on the same health insurance
policy foot the bill.

Same for other insurances, such as temporary disability, etc.

It is very difficult to consider any issue of personal choice in a vacuum.
It nearly always affects others.

The same for obesity, cigarette smoking, etc.

I'm not saying that helmets should be mandatory ... I'm just saying that all
of the "my choice" arguments are incomplete.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

On Aug 14, 8:22*pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
> Went and said goodbye last night.
>
> Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
> over to the music store to show them to some friends. *Nobody is sure
> just what happen. *The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
> on some paint markings. *Here is something we do know, a quote from
> the second link:
>
> "Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as a
> result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
> cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
> convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
> quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
> helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as well
> as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use of
> helmets, no matter how short the trip."
>
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. *Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. *Gonna miss him


Best wishes Bruce.

On Aug 14, 6:22*pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:

Oh that just isn't good. Sorry that your friend is gone.

What I don't get is...when the helmet is optional and people
understand the risk WHY don't they wear the helmet? I don't get it. I
just don't...
--
Keith

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
news:ddOdne0jPrOVeznVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@giganews.com :

> While I believe in freedom as much as anyone, the thing that has to be
> considered is that the price is often paid by others. Look at the
> pain in the folks Doug left behind. There are very few people on this
> earth who have nobody to miss them.

Let's outlaw bathtubs while we're at it...

--
RCOS #7
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

One fine day in rec.motorcycles, Bruce Richmond <bsr3997@my-deja.com>
wrote:

> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. Gonna miss him

Damn sorry about your loss.

I go out on short rides - to the store or whatnot - without my gear. Even
in shorts and a tank top. I rode barefoot once. But I *always* wear a
helmet. I feel naked without it. I wouldn't have survived my only crash
(so far) a few years back without it.

--
Uncle Vic
04 Kawasaki Nomad 1500
92 CB750 Screamin' Dead Red Head

"David T. Ashley" <dta@e3ft.com> wrote in
news:5eidnetTgI-SaznVnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@giganews.com:

> I think what people forget in considering the freedom issues of eating
> fatty foods is that when someone ends up a fat slob, unable to work
> and dying of diabetes, the rest of society foots the bill.

There... Fixed it for you.

(David, Slippery Slope on line one...)

--
RCOS #7
IBA# 11465
http://imagesdesavions.com
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 14, 4:22 pm, Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> http://www.wmur.com/news/17118567/de...s=man&psp=news
>
> http://www.eagletimes.com/ET/story/080809ph-obit-bashaw
>
> Went and said goodbye last night.
>
> Doug had just gotten a new set of pipes on his bike and was headed
> over to the music store to show them to some friends. Nobody is sure
> just what happen. The road may have been wet and he may have gotten
> on some paint markings. Here is something we do know, a quote from
> the second link:
>
> "Doug died on a motorcycle of injuries that were surely sustained as a
> result of not wearing a helmet, a momentary lapse in judgment that
> cost him his life. Normally a helmet user, he perhaps as a matter of
> convenience, did not put his helmet on for what he perceived as a
> quick five-minute trip. Doug's family is united in their belief that
> helmets are essential when using motor and recreation vehicles as well
> as bicycles and rollerblades. The family urges the responsible use of
> helmets, no matter how short the trip."
>
> I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> riders choice. Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> view. Gonna miss him

Sorry for the loss of your friend.

When I was 19, two good friends crashed a Ducati. The
guy operating the bike had given the one and only helmet
to his passenger. His passenger survived with serious
injuries and he didn't. Whether a second helmet would
have changed this is hard to say.

At some point, you have to stop analyzing, mourn the
loss of a friend and move on. I pretty much always ride
with a helmet since then, partly because I felt like I owed
it to him not to wipe out in the same way.

On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:20:37 -0400, David T. Ashley wrote:

> I'm not saying that helmets should be mandatory ... I'm just saying that
> all of the "my choice" arguments are incomplete.

The problem with all this is that it is based on a lie.. the lie is that
you have no choice but to help out your neighbor when he does something
stupid. The reality is that we do have a choice. I would much rather
risk not getting medical attention when I want to do something stupid
than to have the nanny next door force me to behave the way she wants me
to.

Don't pat yourself on the back for being a nice guy helping out a
neighbor and then force your neighbor to live in a plastic bubble.
You're attacking the wrong end of the problem. The problem isn't that
people do things that most of us would consider stupid. The problem is
that society decides, with full knowledge of the circumstances, to
intervene on their behalf.

The argument you're making can be used to create the most intrusive kind
of society. It can be applied to any unpopular activity in which you
wish to engage.

--
Kenneth P. Turvey <kt-usenet@squeakydolphin.com>
http://www.electricsenator.net

The only two things that are infinite in size are the universe
and human stupidity. And I'm not completely sure about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein






--
Kenneth P. Turvey <kt-usenet@squeakydolphin.com>
http://www.electricsenator.net

The only two things that are infinite in size are the universe and
human
stupidity. And I'm not completely sure about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein

>> There are very few people on this
>> earth who have nobody to miss them.

And some poor bastard has to clean up the mess.

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ddOdne0jPrOVeznVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Kenneth P. Turvey wrote:
>
> While I believe in freedom as much as anyone, the thing that has to
> be considered is that the price is often paid by others. Look at
> the pain in the folks Doug left behind. There are very few people
> on this earth who have nobody to miss them.
>
> I see a fair amount of death at work and while I don't always feel
> sorry for the one who died, I usually ache for the ones left behind.
> They're the ones who suffer.
>

Using this logic, we should also ban cigarettes, booze, mayonnaise and
ice-cream given how many people die from lung disease, alcoholism,
obesity and heart attacks.

not that I really want a helmet thread.

"Bruce Richmond" <bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:55ee05d7-bf36-43e4-8648-d080fb57dc9e@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 14, 8:49 pm, "Steve L" <srl1...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Bruce Richmond" <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>

>I live in Charlestown, NH. Same little town as Doug, about 40 miles
>south of Lebanon.

>Bruce

Just across the street from Bellows Falls.

David T. Ashley <dta@e3ft.com> wrote:
>
> I think what people forget in considering the freedom issues of helmet laws
> is that when someone ends up a vegetable in a motorcycle wreck and needs
> care for the rest of their life, the rest of society foots the bill.
>
> Or, if someone doesn't end up a vegetable and just sustains ordinary
> emergency room injuries, all of the people on the same health insurance
> policy foot the bill.
>
> Same for other insurances, such as temporary disability, etc.

Risking to sound harsh, from a society point of view, riders without
helmet are a good thing because they are usually morgue candidates, even
from slow speed accidents. No laborious fixing, drawn out treatments etc
to fix up people - to the contrary, a fresh new package of donor
organs to keep a bunch of smarter people going.

cu
.\\arc

Steve L wrote:
>> While I believe in freedom as much as anyone, the thing that has to
>> be considered is that the price is often paid by others. Look at
>> the pain in the folks Doug left behind. There are very few people
>> on this earth who have nobody to miss them.
>
> Using this logic, we should also ban cigarettes, booze, mayonnaise and
> ice-cream given how many people die from lung disease, alcoholism,
> obesity and heart attacks.
>
> not that I really want a helmet thread.


I'm not looking to become the poster child of nannyism either. All I said was
that consideration should given to the fact that the freedom does have a cost
beyond what the rider pays.

I ride in a state that requires a helmet. I work in a state that does not.
I'll wear my helmet in both as I value my brains. But I'm not inclined to push
for a helmet law in SC. They still have a use for organ donors down there.

A dentist once told me when I complained about what a PITA flossing was... did I
really need to floss every one of my teeth daily? "Only the ones you want to
keep.", he said.

Your mileage obviously differs. You should do what you want.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:e6idnZAU8LxLNTjVnZ2dnUVZ_rPinZ2d@giganews.com ...
> I ride in a state that requires a helmet. I work in a state that does
> not. I'll wear my helmet in both as I value my brains. But I'm not
> inclined to push for a helmet law in SC. They still have a use for organ
> donors down there.

I live in a state without a helmet law, although the surrounding states
mostly do require them. But I wear a lid 100% of the time anyway.

Having said that, I would never, ever push for a helmet law, on the
grounds of personal responsibility, etc., as have been previously
mentioned.

But having said THAT: I would gladly ACCEPT a helmet law in
my state IF it meant we'd also get laws - and actually have them
enforced - that would require the cagers to put down their cell
phones, etc., in exchange, and actually make them responsible
if they caused the death or injury of a rider. It would, to me, be
an acceptable compromise. Not one that I ever expect to see
actually happen, mind you.

Bob M.

"S'mee" <stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0b689bc6-41a1-4fe0-82b2-c1ff8470c222@a2g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

> What I don't get is...when the helmet is optional and people
> understand the risk WHY don't they wear the helmet? I don't get it. I
> just don't...

That sort of behavior is hardly limited to the choice whether
or not to wear a helmet. People do all sorts of things that
are potentially harmful to themselves, sometimes things that
are VERY likely to be harmful. In some cases, it is a
calculated risk, a choice made with full knowledge and
acceptance of the odds; in others, it's a completely stupid
"this could never happen to ME, so I'm simply not going
to worry about it" attitude. You or I can't tell which is the
case just by looking at 'em (well, OK, in some cases, it IS
pretty obvious...:-)). I figured out a while back that the only
person I can ever really be responsible for is me. I can
maybe, sometimes, help others with their decisions, but it
will be THEIR decision, no matter how much I cringe when
I see the results.

I'll defend anyone's right to make stupid choices. I also expect
them to respect MY right to call them stupid.

Bob M.

"Marc Gerges" <marc.gerges@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fiagn5-bbu.ln1@pascal.gerges.lu...
> David T. Ashley <dta@e3ft.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think what people forget in considering the freedom issues of helmet
>> laws
>> is that when someone ends up a vegetable in a motorcycle wreck and needs
>> care for the rest of their life, the rest of society foots the bill.
>>
>> Or, if someone doesn't end up a vegetable and just sustains ordinary
>> emergency room injuries, all of the people on the same health insurance
>> policy foot the bill.
>>
>> Same for other insurances, such as temporary disability, etc.
>
> Risking to sound harsh, from a society point of view, riders without
> helmet are a good thing because they are usually morgue candidates, even
> from slow speed accidents. No laborious fixing, drawn out treatments etc
> to fix up people - to the contrary, a fresh new package of donor
> organs to keep a bunch of smarter people going.

I once heard that as an explanation of why the states with a high percentage
of senior citizens (Florida?) have no helmet laws. The seniors are smart
enough to ensure an organ replacement supply ...

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote
>
> I'm not looking to become the poster child of nannyism either. All I said
> was that consideration should given to the fact that the freedom does have
> a cost beyond what the rider pays.
>
Naw ...

I knew a guy who loved motocross so much he continued to race long after
most give it up. He even raced after the MDs told him the exertion would
bust his bad heart. Well, sure enough, one race he went into a corner and
didn't come out. Had a heart attack and died right there on the track, in
front of friends and family.

Everybody was saddened to lose him but glad and envious that he died doing
what he loved, not watching NASCAR.

We all die sooner or later. Cost to our kin is the same whether we die free
or otherwise.

On Aug 14, 11:20*pm, "David T. Ashley" <d...@e3ft.com> wrote:
> "Bruce Richmond" <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:45ac4ae7-9079-4b6a-813a-b0b30db3b13b@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I almost always wear a helmet but have always felt it should be the
> > riders choice. *Shit like this makes it real hard to maintain that
> > view.
>
> I think what people forget in considering the freedom issues of helmet laws
> is that when someone ends up a vegetable in a motorcycle wreck and needs
> care for the rest of their life, the rest of society foots the bill.
>
> Or, if someone doesn't end up a vegetable and just sustains ordinary
> emergency room injuries, all of the people on the same health insurance
> policy foot the bill.
>
> Same for other insurances, such as temporary disability, etc.
>
> It is very difficult to consider any issue of personal choice in a vacuum..
> It nearly always affects others.
>
> The same for obesity, cigarette smoking, etc.
>
> I'm not saying that helmets should be mandatory ... I'm just saying that all
> of the "my choice" arguments are incomplete.

It was not my intent to start a helmet thread, but I can't let this
slide by without comment. If you are not trying to make helmets
mandatory don't repeat the screwed up ideas of those that are trying
to do that. And be aware that it is a double edged sword you have
there. It cuts both ways.

Doug wasn't wearing a helmet and he is dead now. He wont cost you or
the rest of society anything. If he had been wearing his helmet he
might have survived as a vegetable leaving the state to take care of
his wife and kids.

Think that's far fetched? Meet my friend Larry Hanlon

http://www.lrrsracing.com/images/lar...lon/Larry1.jpg

Larry was wearing a helmet when he went down, and a back protector and
chest protector as well. If he hadn't been wearing all that gear he
would have been dead for sure. As it was he got his brain scrambled
and both his neck and back broken, not to mention a lot of less
important bones. He took a nap for a month on life support. I was
visiting when his eyes opened and said hi, then realized nobody was
home. For the first year after the accident he was a "quad", then he
slowly regained some use of his arms. He had to be taught to talk
again, and pretty much everything else you would teach a child. He
still has a care giver over a dozen years later. He had insurance
but lost everything and the state has paid millions to take care of
him.

Now about you.... I seem to recall you went down once or twice. It
seems you are an accident waiting for a place to happen. Perhaps it
would be in our best interest for you to quit riding. Cars are much
safer you know. And walking is safer yet. So just turn in your
license now and we can all sleep better at night.

> I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

Thanks, I don't mean to be an asshole even if I come across that way
above.

Bruce