The Mrs had a little trouble on our trip last summer in that her thigh
bone would bang against the pillion hand grips when we hit bumps, to
the point it began to be painful. It was only one thigh bone
(femur?), the one that is closer to the skin surface due to an auto
accident.

I bought a set of elevated passenger floorboard posts this spring from
the local HD dealer for $137. I discovered later in the summer that
Anchorage Harley charges above list ($124)while Fairbanks Harley
sticks to list. Anyway, I took the wife on her first ride of the
season after installation to check them out. The posts worked great,
so she is now pain free.

The ride was our usual 30 miles to Girdwood and 30 miles back. Traffic
was a little slow, but not too bad. Traffic came to a standstill on
the way home though, with maybe a half mile long line of cars winding
along the shore line till it disappeared around the mountain bend. We
sat there for awhile. I hadn't charged the battery in recently, which
is something I seem to have to do to ward off low voltage, so I was
hesitant to shut/start the engine down as traffic moved a few car
lengths every 10 minutes. I was also leery of sitting at a stop for
long periods on an air-cooled bike. After perhaps 20 minutes, I
pulled over to the shoulder, rode up the line about 50 yards, crossed
the street, parked in a pull-off, and shut the engine down.

Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there, so I
decided to head back to Girdwood and try again later. We stopped at
The Chair 5, which was so packed the wife asked a guy if he'd share
his table, which he did. It turned out he was our ex-Senator Ted
Stevens' next door neighbor. We had an appetizer, chatted with the
fellow for about an hour, then tried the road for home once again.

Nothing had changed, so this time I just sat in line, wondering how
hot my engine was getting. There was a fair amount of wind, but as I
sat in line idling, the oil pressure gradually dropped. The wife
occasionally urged me to ride the shoulder to the head of the line,
but I was hesitant, in part because I figured there would be cops at
the head of the line who might not like it. I changed my mind when my
oil pressure was down to very nearly zero. Off I went riding the
shoulder. All went well till I came to a motorhome. As I approached,
a woman jumped out and began to walk/jog alongside the motorhome,
thereby partially blocking the shoulder. I don't know what she was up
to, but I slowed to a crawl, waiting for her to do whatever it was she
was going to do. I happened to glance down at my gauges though, saw
my red oil light was on, and so went ahead and proceeded to pass. She
gave me enough room to get by, so all went well.

Traffic was just starting to move then, so there were wide open spaces
in front of the motorhome, permitting me to get back onto the road,
some revs, get some oil pressure, and cool things off.

All parties were gone when I reached the crash sight, though I had a
chance to see some flashing red lights as I approached. I noticed a
motorcycle skid mark, with some auto skid marks very near it. The
story that emerged as few weeks later was that two motorcycles were
passing a string of cars when oncoming traffic forced them to get back
into their lane. The motorcycle in front braked hard, the one in the
rear over braked and went down, sliding into the front bike, which
caused the front bike's passenger (wife) to get tossed off, where she
was struck by a semi. She wasn't dead, but seriously injured.

Back home, I searched the net to learn about oil coolers and found the
usual assortment of conflicting opinions about whether or not the
basic oil coolers do any good. My air-cooled Honda Nighthawk 750 had
an oil cooler. It was a piece of tubing with relatively Spartan
cooling fins on it.

Any of the Harley crowd out there know anything about oil coolers, or
other ways to keep engine temp down during very long standstill times?
I've read about a radiator type that kind of sits at the bottom front
of the engine and a simple tube type that is similar to what was on my
Nighthawk. I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual speaks of using 50w
when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50 when starting below 60 F
ambient. I start often in the 40s F.

Robert

Robert Bolton wrote:
> Any of the Harley crowd out there know anything about oil coolers, or
> other ways to keep engine temp down during very long standstill times?
> I've read about a radiator type that kind of sits at the bottom front
> of the engine and a simple tube type that is similar to what was on my
> Nighthawk. I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual speaks of using 50w
> when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50 when starting below 60 F
> ambient. I start often in the 40s F.
>
> Robert

I have the type that mounts low on the front frame tubes . It's about 4"
tall and 7" wide , heavily finned . But the best cooler in the world won't
help if there's no airflow over it .
There are aftermarket fans that mount on the engine to blow air over the
cylinders , but I have no experience with them . In my experience , LEO's
are usually pretty lenient about letting you ride down the
shoulder/emergency lane if you're nice about it . "Officer , I really need
to be moving , or I'm gonna fry the motor ."
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

"Snag" <snagone@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:bQn1m.11711$KQ4.3268@newsfe18.iad:
>
> I have the type that mounts low on the front frame tubes . It's about
> 4" tall and 7" wide , heavily finned . But the best cooler in the
> world won't help if there's no airflow over it .
> There are aftermarket fans that mount on the engine to blow air over
> the
> cylinders , but I have no experience with them . In my experience ,
> LEO's are usually pretty lenient about letting you ride down the
> shoulder/emergency lane if you're nice about it . "Officer , I really
> need to be moving , or I'm gonna fry the motor ."

Harley has a fan that mounts where the horn usually goes.
I have no experience with it.
One other thing that helps is to make sure the fuel is up at idle as well.
If the H-D overall fuel ratio is kept right down to idle it will run lean
and hot.
As you say, the oil cooler only works when you are moving and I can't see
it being necessary in Alaska.

--
Bob Mann

Cap'n, ah need moor pow'r.

Robert Bolton wrote:

> I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual
> speaks of using 50w when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50
> when starting below 60 F ambient. I start often in the 40s F.

Two thoughts, only partially related:

1) Consider using synthetic oil. It is MUCH less likely to break down due
to high temps. than conventional oil
AND
2) Your battery situation might be improved somewhat by keeping the engine
revs. up a bit more (shifting later) and by tweaking the idle speed up a
bit...........but then it probably wouldn't "sound" like a Harley !!!

On Jun 26, 11:54*pm, Robert Bolton <robertboltond...@gci.net> wrote:

<snipped for brevity>

Hi Robert. Lots of stuff that could be commented on there...

To begin with, you might have been too conservative when it came to
shutting down the engine periodically. It doesn't take that much
juice to restart it once in awhile. If you want to help replenish the
battery, you can use the throttle to keep the revs up to about 2,500
or 3,000 for awhile.

In addition, when in a traffic jam, you can often paddle-foot the bike
a bit, if the line just moves a short distance - alternating that
method with restarts to move under power. Helps if the lineup is not
leading uphill, of course. Works great if it's downhill.

And the oil pressure thing... The gauge is misleading because it's a
reflection of how thin the oil is, not how much oil is actually
flowing through the engine. When really hot, the oil is thin like
water, so there's no pressure; even though the oil is flowing
normally. Notice that, when starting the bike in cold weather, how
high the pressure is? Like 40 psi? Same thing in the other
direction.

I agree with the comment on using synthetic because it performs better
in extreme heat situations. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 the entire life
of my Road Glide and the motor's still fine after over 125,000 miles.

As Snag says, I'd also recommend being a little more outlaw when it
comes to taking the shoulder in the situation you described and use
the excuse he suggested if you get stopped.

And forget the oil cooler and engine fan stuff. Not needed -
especially in Alaska.

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:59:03 -0500, "Snag" <snagone@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>Robert Bolton wrote:
>> Any of the Harley crowd out there know anything about oil coolers, or
>> other ways to keep engine temp down during very long standstill times?
>> I've read about a radiator type that kind of sits at the bottom front
>> of the engine and a simple tube type that is similar to what was on my
>> Nighthawk. I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual speaks of using 50w
>> when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50 when starting below 60 F
>> ambient. I start often in the 40s F.
>>
>> Robert
>
>I have the type that mounts low on the front frame tubes . It's about 4"
>tall and 7" wide , heavily finned . But the best cooler in the world won't
>help if there's no airflow over it .
> There are aftermarket fans that mount on the engine to blow air over the
>cylinders , but I have no experience with them . In my experience , LEO's
>are usually pretty lenient about letting you ride down the
>shoulder/emergency lane if you're nice about it . "Officer , I really need
>to be moving , or I'm gonna fry the motor ."

Thanks, Snag. Perhaps I'll look into a fan someday. My experience
was probably a once every 10 years kind of thing, but it sure did
worry me.

Robert

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:15:50 -0500, "Who Me?" <hitchhiker@dont.panic>
wrote:

>Robert Bolton wrote:
>
>> I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual
>> speaks of using 50w when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50
>> when starting below 60 F ambient. I start often in the 40s F.
>
>Two thoughts, only partially related:
>
>1) Consider using synthetic oil. It is MUCH less likely to break down due
>to high temps. than conventional oil
>AND
>2) Your battery situation might be improved somewhat by keeping the engine
>revs. up a bit more (shifting later) and by tweaking the idle speed up a
>bit...........but then it probably wouldn't "sound" like a Harley !!!
>
My idle's just under 1200, which is actually above spec. My bike's a
'97 with an AGM type battery, so the charging system wasn't designed
for the specific battery as I understand it. Every now and then I'll
notice the voltage is lower than normal so I slap a battery tender
plus on it over night. I checked out the charging system last summer,
and it was putting out well within spec, so I replaced the battery
night before last. We'll see if a newer battery doesn't help me out.

I'm already using Harley's synth version of their 20-50, but only
because I haven't gotten around to finding one with a higher temp
rating. I discovered one in the past that withstood higher temps but
I don't remember which one it was. I'll have to get back to that
pretty quick, as an oil change is coming up.

Appreciate the input,

Robert

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT), "Road Glidin' Don"
<d.langkd@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 26, 11:54*pm, Robert Bolton <robertboltond...@gci.net> wrote:
>
><snipped for brevity>
>
>Hi Robert. Lots of stuff that could be commented on there...
>
>To begin with, you might have been too conservative when it came to
>shutting down the engine periodically. It doesn't take that much
>juice to restart it once in awhile. If you want to help replenish the
>battery, you can use the throttle to keep the revs up to about 2,500
>or 3,000 for awhile.
>
I'm hoping a new battery will take care of it. The old one was
stamped 04/2003, but was an AGM type that is supposed to have a long
life. It had been gassing a little around the negative post, which
always had me wondering about a bad connection due to corrosion. When
I replaced it the other night I could see gassing stains around the
entire battery seal, so perhaps it was on its last legs. I've started
the bike twice now with the new battery without a hitch, but the true
test will be when I re-start hot a few times. It used to have trouble
every now and then getting past the first compression stroke after
gassing up, so we'll see.

Old battery - Interstate YIX30L - 380 cca, 30 ah
New batt - Interstate FAYIX30L (factory activated)
380 cca, 30 ah.

I think the battery Harley sells is an Exide, rate 28 ah and 335 cca,
as dimensions are identical. Interstates are re-stamped YUASA, which
I went with due to the higher capabilities. I've read though that
batteries with higher a cca might not be as structurally vibration
proof as one with a lower cca, as the plates are more delicate. We'll
see.
.....
>And the oil pressure thing... The gauge is misleading because it's a
>reflection of how thin the oil is, not how much oil is actually
>flowing through the engine. When really hot, the oil is thin like
>water, so there's no pressure; even though the oil is flowing
>normally. Notice that, when starting the bike in cold weather, how
>high the pressure is? Like 40 psi? Same thing in the other
>direction.
>
Well you'll need a tiny bit of pressure to lift the oil to the top of
the cylinder. Yes, mine runs 40 psi cold at speed, 20 psi warm, 10 to
15 psi at idle normally. Seems to me Harley says 5psi is their start
to worry point, but I don't remember at what rpm. You know I often
tell myself not to worry as I don't exactly live in Phoenix, but I
really wonder how the bikes standup over time in those areas. That
cross-over pipe can start cooking you leg if you sit around too long,
even up here.

>I agree with the comment on using synthetic because it performs better
>in extreme heat situations. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 the entire life
>of my Road Glide and the motor's still fine after over 125,000 miles.
>
>As Snag says, I'd also recommend being a little more outlaw when it
>comes to taking the shoulder in the situation you described and use
>the excuse he suggested if you get stopped.
>
>And forget the oil cooler and engine fan stuff. Not needed -
>especially in Alaska.
>
You wouldn't think so, especially with a 1340, but I have a hard time
ignoring a gauge reading near zero.

Appreciate your input Don. Hey, I have an OT question for you. Which
name do you prefer for the Mrs.? I noticed what I presume is a First
Nations name on your web pages so thought I'd ask.

Robert

"Road Glidin' Don" <d.langkd@gmail.com> wrote

<snipped for brevity>

And the oil pressure thing... The gauge is misleading because it's a
reflection of how thin the oil is, not how much oil is actually
flowing through the engine. When really hot, the oil is thin like
water, so there's no pressure; even though the oil is flowing
normally. Notice that, when starting the bike in cold weather, how
high the pressure is? Like 40 psi? Same thing in the other
direction.
==========================================

Don's right. The reason HD oil pressure is less than folks are used to is
that the motor uses roller and ball bearings instead of "plain" bearings
common in cars and other bikes. The latter require high oil pressure because
the oil molicules keep the bearing races apart. Roller and ball bearings
just need flow and nearly no pressure is needed to provide it.

On Jun 27, 1:54*am, Robert Bolton <robertboltond...@gci.net> wrote:
> The Mrs had a little trouble on our trip last summer in that her thigh
> bone would bang against the pillion hand grips when we hit bumps, to
> the point it began to be painful. *It was only one thigh bone
> (femur?), the one that is closer to the skin surface due to an auto
> accident.
>
> I bought a set of elevated passenger floorboard posts this spring from
> the local HD dealer for $137. *I discovered later in the summer that
> Anchorage Harley charges above list ($124)while Fairbanks Harley
> sticks to list. *Anyway, I took the wife on her first ride of the
> season after installation to check them out. *The posts worked great,
> so she is now pain free.
>
> The ride was our usual 30 miles to Girdwood and 30 miles back. Traffic
> was a little slow, but not too bad. *Traffic came to a standstill on
> the way home though, with maybe a half mile long line of cars winding
> along the shore line till it disappeared around the mountain bend. *We
> sat there for awhile. *I hadn't charged the battery in recently, which
> is something I seem to have to do to ward off low voltage, so I was
> hesitant to shut/start the engine down as traffic moved a few car
> lengths every 10 minutes. *I was also leery of sitting at a stop for
> long periods on an air-cooled bike. *After perhaps 20 minutes, I
> pulled over to the shoulder, rode up the line about 50 yards, crossed
> the street, parked in a pull-off, and shut the engine down.
>
> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there, so I
> decided to head back to Girdwood and try again later. *We stopped at
> The Chair 5, which was so packed the wife asked a guy if he'd share
> his table, which he did. *It turned out he was our ex-Senator Ted
> Stevens' next door neighbor. *We had an appetizer, chatted with the
> fellow for about an hour, then tried the road for home once again.
>
> Nothing had changed, so this time I just sat in line, wondering how
> hot my engine was getting. *There was a fair amount of wind, but as I
> sat in line idling, the oil pressure gradually dropped. *The wife
> occasionally urged me to ride the shoulder to the head of the line,
> but I was hesitant, in part because I figured there would be cops at
> the head of the line who might not like it. *I changed my mind when my
> oil pressure was down to very nearly zero. *Off I went riding the
> shoulder. *All went well till I came to a motorhome. *As I approached,
> a woman jumped out and began to walk/jog alongside the *motorhome,
> thereby partially blocking the shoulder. *I don't know what she was up
> to, but I slowed to a crawl, waiting for her to do whatever it was she
> was going to do. *I happened to glance down at my gauges though, saw
> my red oil light was on, and so went ahead and proceeded to pass. *She
> gave me enough room to get by, so all went well.
>
> Traffic was just starting to move then, so there were wide open spaces
> in front of the motorhome, permitting me to get back onto the road,
> some revs, get some oil pressure, and cool things off.
>
> All parties were gone when I reached the crash sight, though I had a
> chance to see some flashing red lights as I approached. *I noticed a
> motorcycle skid mark, with some auto skid marks very near it. *The
> story that emerged as few weeks later was that two motorcycles were
> passing a string of cars when oncoming traffic forced them to get back
> into their lane. *The motorcycle in front braked hard, the one in the
> rear over braked and went down, sliding into the front bike, which
> caused the front bike's passenger (wife) to get tossed off, where she
> was struck by a semi. *She wasn't dead, but seriously injured.
>
> Back home, I searched the net to learn about oil coolers and found the
> usual assortment of conflicting opinions about whether or not the
> basic oil coolers do any good. *My air-cooled Honda Nighthawk 750 had
> an oil cooler. *It was a piece of tubing with relatively Spartan
> cooling fins on it.
>
> Any of the Harley crowd out there know anything about oil coolers, or
> other ways to keep engine temp down during very long standstill times?

a) Hit the kill switch.

b) Buy a new one with heat activated rear cylinder cutoff.

On Jun 27, 4:02*pm, saddlebag <saddle...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 1:54*am, Robert Bolton <robertboltond...@gci.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Mrs had a little trouble on our trip last summer in that her thigh
> > bone would bang against the pillion hand grips when we hit bumps, to
> > the point it began to be painful. *It was only one thigh bone
> > (femur?), the one that is closer to the skin surface due to an auto
> > accident.
>
> > I bought a set of elevated passenger floorboard posts this spring from
> > the local HD dealer for $137. *I discovered later in the summer that
> > Anchorage Harley charges above list ($124)while Fairbanks Harley
> > sticks to list. *Anyway, I took the wife on her first ride of the
> > season after installation to check them out. *The posts worked great,
> > so she is now pain free.
>
> > The ride was our usual 30 miles to Girdwood and 30 miles back. Traffic
> > was a little slow, but not too bad. *Traffic came to a standstill on
> > the way home though, with maybe a half mile long line of cars winding
> > along the shore line till it disappeared around the mountain bend. *We
> > sat there for awhile. *I hadn't charged the battery in recently, which
> > is something I seem to have to do to ward off low voltage, so I was
> > hesitant to shut/start the engine down as traffic moved a few car
> > lengths every 10 minutes. *I was also leery of sitting at a stop for
> > long periods on an air-cooled bike. *After perhaps 20 minutes, I
> > pulled over to the shoulder, rode up the line about 50 yards, crossed
> > the street, parked in a pull-off, and shut the engine down.
>
> > Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there, so I
> > decided to head back to Girdwood and try again later. *We stopped at
> > The Chair 5, which was so packed the wife asked a guy if he'd share
> > his table, which he did. *It turned out he was our ex-Senator Ted
> > Stevens' next door neighbor. *We had an appetizer, chatted with the
> > fellow for about an hour, then tried the road for home once again.
>
> > Nothing had changed, so this time I just sat in line, wondering how
> > hot my engine was getting. *There was a fair amount of wind, but as I
> > sat in line idling, the oil pressure gradually dropped. *The wife
> > occasionally urged me to ride the shoulder to the head of the line,
> > but I was hesitant, in part because I figured there would be cops at
> > the head of the line who might not like it. *I changed my mind when my
> > oil pressure was down to very nearly zero. *Off I went riding the
> > shoulder. *All went well till I came to a motorhome. *As I approached,
> > a woman jumped out and began to walk/jog alongside the *motorhome,
> > thereby partially blocking the shoulder. *I don't know what she was up
> > to, but I slowed to a crawl, waiting for her to do whatever it was she
> > was going to do. *I happened to glance down at my gauges though, saw
> > my red oil light was on, and so went ahead and proceeded to pass. *She
> > gave me enough room to get by, so all went well.
>
> > Traffic was just starting to move then, so there were wide open spaces
> > in front of the motorhome, permitting me to get back onto the road,
> > some revs, get some oil pressure, and cool things off.
>
> > All parties were gone when I reached the crash sight, though I had a
> > chance to see some flashing red lights as I approached. *I noticed a
> > motorcycle skid mark, with some auto skid marks very near it. *The
> > story that emerged as few weeks later was that two motorcycles were
> > passing a string of cars when oncoming traffic forced them to get back
> > into their lane. *The motorcycle in front braked hard, the one in the
> > rear over braked and went down, sliding into the front bike, which
> > caused the front bike's passenger (wife) to get tossed off, where she
> > was struck by a semi. *She wasn't dead, but seriously injured.
>
> > Back home, I searched the net to learn about oil coolers and found the
> > usual assortment of conflicting opinions about whether or not the
> > basic oil coolers do any good. *My air-cooled Honda Nighthawk 750 had
> > an oil cooler. *It was a piece of tubing with relatively Spartan
> > cooling fins on it.
>
> > Any of the Harley crowd out there know anything about oil coolers, or
> > other ways to keep engine temp down during very long standstill times?
>
> a) Hit the kill switch.
>
> b) Buy a new one with heat activated rear cylinder cutoff.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Buell Uly comes with a fan to cool the rear cylinder.

Robert Bolton <robertboltondrop@gci.net> wrote:

> Traffic came to a standstill on
> the way home though, with maybe a half mile long line of cars winding
> along the shore line till it disappeared around the mountain bend. We
> sat there for awhile. I hadn't charged the battery in recently, which
> is something I seem to have to do to ward off low voltage, so I was
> hesitant to shut/start the engine down as traffic moved a few car
> lengths every 10 minutes. I was also leery of sitting at a stop for
> long periods on an air-cooled bike. After perhaps 20 minutes, I
> pulled over to the shoulder, rode up the line about 50 yards, crossed
> the street, parked in a pull-off, and shut the engine down.
>
> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,

Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & XBR500 Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Jun 27, 11:18*pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:
>
> > Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
>
> Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.

But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.

Perfectly legal in California, of course.

Thank God.

Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 27, 11:18 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> Gentleman) wrote:
> >
> > > Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
> >
> > Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
>
> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.

I know. I couldn't resist, though.
>
> Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>
And most other places on the planet. Where people are sensible enough to
realise that if there's some unused road, and a vehicle small and agile
enough to use, you might as well let them.

And in this eco-age, it relieves congestion which also reduces
emissions. A winner all round.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & XBR500 Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

The Older Gentleman wrote:
> Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 27, 11:18 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>> Gentleman) wrote:
>>>> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
>>> Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
>> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
>> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.
>
> I know. I couldn't resist, though.
>> Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>>
> And most other places on the planet. Where people are sensible enough to
> realise that if there's some unused road, and a vehicle small and agile
> enough to use, you might as well let them.
>
> And in this eco-age, it relieves congestion which also reduces
> emissions. A winner all round.

The sight of a bike filtering past stopped traffic is enough to
give many people outside California an apoplectic fit and drive
them into a rage. The fact that the bike isn't impeding them in
any way makes no difference, they can't stand the fact that you're
getting ahead of them and in their mind it isn't fair that you
aren't waiting your turn. I have filtered on occasion when it's
the sensible if not quite legal thing to do and have seen this
first hand.

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

> The Older Gentleman wrote:
> > Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jun 27, 11:18 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> >> Gentleman) wrote:
> >>>> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
> >>> Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
> >> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
> >> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.
> >
> > I know. I couldn't resist, though.
> >> Perfectly legal in California, of course.
> >>
> > And most other places on the planet. Where people are sensible enough to
> > realise that if there's some unused road, and a vehicle small and agile
> > enough to use, you might as well let them.
> >
> > And in this eco-age, it relieves congestion which also reduces
> > emissions. A winner all round.
>
> The sight of a bike filtering past stopped traffic is enough to
> give many people outside California an apoplectic fit and drive
> them into a rage. The fact that the bike isn't impeding them in
> any way makes no difference, they can't stand the fact that you're
> getting ahead of them and in their mind it isn't fair that you
> aren't waiting your turn. I have filtered on occasion when it's
> the sensible if not quite legal thing to do and have seen this
> first hand.

Insane, IMHO. If you want to get through traffic, get a bike.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & XBR500 Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Jun 28, 12:28*am, Twibil <nowayjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 11:18*pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>
> Gentleman) wrote:
>
> > > Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
>
> > Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
>
> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.

So is speeding, go ahead tell the truth...you never speed.

> Perfectly legal in California, of course.

Wrong it's just not illegal.

On Jun 28, 7:12*am, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> The Older Gentleman wrote:
> > Twibil <nowayjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 27, 11:18 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> >> Gentleman) wrote:
> >>>> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
> >>> Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
> >> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
> >> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.
>
> > I know. I couldn't resist, though.
> >> Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>
> > And most other places on the planet. Where people are sensible enough to
> > realise that if there's some unused road, and a vehicle small and agile
> > enough to use, you might as well let them.
>
> > And in this eco-age, it relieves congestion which also reduces
> > emissions. A winner all round.
>
> The sight of a bike filtering past stopped traffic is enough to
> give many people outside California an apoplectic fit and drive
> them into a rage. *The fact that the bike isn't impeding them in
> any way makes no difference, they can't stand the fact that you're
> getting ahead of them and in their mind it isn't fair that you
> aren't waiting your turn. *I have filtered on occasion when it's
> the sensible if not quite legal thing to do and have seen this
> first hand.

So what is the moron in the cage going to do? well? Nothing that's
what...hopefully the bastard/bitch has a heartattack and learns from
the experience that when you are in traffic it just dosen't matter.

On Jun 28, 7:36*am, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:
> Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> > The Older Gentleman wrote:
> > > Twibil <nowayjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> On Jun 27, 11:18 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> > >> Gentleman) wrote:
> > >>>> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
> > >>> Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
> > >> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
> > >> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.
>
> > > I know. I couldn't resist, though.
> > >> Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>
> > > And most other places on the planet. Where people are sensible enoughto
> > > realise that if there's some unused road, and a vehicle small and agile
> > > enough to use, you might as well let them.
>
> > > And in this eco-age, it relieves congestion which also reduces
> > > emissions. A winner all round.
>
> > The sight of a bike filtering past stopped traffic is enough to
> > give many people outside California an apoplectic fit and drive
> > them into a rage. *The fact that the bike isn't impeding them in
> > any way makes no difference, they can't stand the fact that you're
> > getting ahead of them and in their mind it isn't fair that you
> > aren't waiting your turn. *I have filtered on occasion when it's
> > the sensible if not quite legal thing to do and have seen this
> > first hand.
>
> Insane, IMHO. If you want to get through traffic, get a bike.

Oh now you are just talking sense.

The Older Gentleman wrote:
> Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>>> Twibil <nowayjose6@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 11:18 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>>>> Gentleman) wrote:
>>>>>> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there,
>>>>> Filter past the traffic. It's what bikes are for.
>>>> But it's illegal most places in north America, and can result in a
>>>> nasty fine if a cop sees you doing it.
>>>
>>> I know. I couldn't resist, though.
>>>> Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>>>>
>>> And most other places on the planet. Where people are sensible
>>> enough to realise that if there's some unused road, and a vehicle
>>> small and agile enough to use, you might as well let them.
>>>
>>> And in this eco-age, it relieves congestion which also reduces
>>> emissions. A winner all round.
>>
>> The sight of a bike filtering past stopped traffic is enough to
>> give many people outside California an apoplectic fit and drive
>> them into a rage. The fact that the bike isn't impeding them in
>> any way makes no difference, they can't stand the fact that you're
>> getting ahead of them and in their mind it isn't fair that you
>> aren't waiting your turn. I have filtered on occasion when it's
>> the sensible if not quite legal thing to do and have seen this
>> first hand.
>
> Insane, IMHO. If you want to get through traffic, get a bike.

Politicians can't stand it when some pimply faced kid on a Vespa is moving
while they in their overpriced statusmobiles are not.

Schiffner <stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>
> Wrong it's just not illegal.

That means it's legal. The system is that everything is legal unless
it's proscribed, not the other way around. Unless you live in North
Korea or somewhere.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & XBR500 Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Jun 28, 9:13*am, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:
> Schiffner <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>
> > Wrong it's just not illegal.
>
> That means it's legal. The system is that everything is legal unless
> it's proscribed, not the other way around. Unless you live in North
> Korea or somewhere.

You forget california is "funny". This is one of those "No it isn't
illegal as such, but it isn't exactly legal either" it's all rather
complicated and a lawyer current on california traffic law could
explain it better than anyone else...unless you can find Larry and ask
him.

--
Keith

On Jun 28, 8:49*am, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use...@cox.net> wrote:

> Politicians can't stand it when some pimply faced kid on a Vespa is moving
> while they in their overpriced statusmobiles are not.

Well maybe they need to grow up a bunch then and learn to deal with
the concequeces of the decisions they make. I knew more than one Bike
messanger that had something special for the whiners. spark plugs,
urine cups etc.

8^) The worst was the redneck who'd gift his spit cup to whiners in
statusmobiles.

--
Keith

totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:

> Schiffner <stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>>
>> Wrong it's just not illegal.
>
> That means it's legal. The system is that everything is legal unless
> it's proscribed, not the other way around. Unless you live in North
> Korea or somewhere.

*Only* if you're living in a place where the law is based on English
common law. In other places like Germany, it can work the other way
around - if it's not explicitly permitted, it's illegal.

--
Morini Corsaro 125 | XL250 Motosport | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:

> totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:
>
> > Schiffner <stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Perfectly legal in California, of course.
> >>
> >> Wrong it's just not illegal.
> >
> > That means it's legal. The system is that everything is legal unless
> > it's proscribed, not the other way around. Unless you live in North
> > Korea or somewhere.
>
> *Only* if you're living in a place where the law is based on English
> common law. In other places like Germany, it can work the other way
> around - if it's not explicitly permitted, it's illegal.

OK, I stand corrected. And a bit worried.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & XBR500 Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:13:26 +0100, totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk
(The Older Gentleman) wrote:

>Schiffner <stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Perfectly legal in California, of course.
>>
>> Wrong it's just not illegal.
>
>That means it's legal.

Not really. I got stopped for it once. 2 lanes each direction, in
town. Car on the right was stopped, waiting for diagonally parked car
to pull out. Car on left was stopped, thinking parked car may need
entire roadway to pull out. I split them and continued until a motor
cop pulled me over. He read me the riot act, but didn't cite me,
perhaps because I kept civil.

The point is, he _could_ have written me for Unsafe Lane Change,
Passing on the Right, or perhaps a couple of other violations if he
chose. Lanesplitting may not be explicitly illegal, but cops can
always find something to charge you with if they don't like what you
did. (BTW, cops around here won't call it "lanesplitting." They call
it "lanesharing." I dunno why it's so important to them, but they make
a point of it.)

--
Turby the Turbosurfer

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:17:33 -0700 (PDT), Schiffner
<stevenkeith2@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 28, 7:12*am, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:

>> The sight of a bike filtering past stopped traffic is enough to
>> give many people outside California an apoplectic fit and drive
>> them into a rage. *The fact that the bike isn't impeding them in
>> any way makes no difference, they can't stand the fact that you're
>> getting ahead of them and in their mind it isn't fair that you
>> aren't waiting your turn. *I have filtered on occasion when it's
>> the sensible if not quite legal thing to do and have seen this
>> first hand.
>
>So what is the moron in the cage going to do? well? Nothing that's
>what...hopefully the bastard/bitch has a heartattack and learns from
>the experience that when you are in traffic it just dosen't matter.

When it first became legitimized in CA, I still saw the occasional
idiot who would try to open his door or edge closer to the line. In
the last 10 years or so, that's been replaced by more and more people
who edge away from the center when they see me splitting. I can't
remember the last time someone _tried_ to obstruct my way. Mind, this
is in the city judged 10th on the "Nation's Rudest Drivers" list.

--
Turby the Turbosurfer

Turby wrote:
> Car on the right was stopped, waiting for diagonally parked
> car to pull out. Car on left was stopped, thinking parked car may
> need entire roadway to pull out. I split them and continued

He probably SHOULD have given you a ticket or three.

In the past 6 months in my area, TWO riders have DIED when passing stopped
cages........only to find out WHY they were stopped when it was too late.

What you described has nothing to do with lane splitting OR lane sharing; it
is just stupidity.

Who Me? <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote:

> What you described has nothing to do with lane splitting OR lane sharing; it
> is just stupidity.

Rubbish.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & XBR500 Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. And RTFM.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Jun 28, 11:33*am, "Who Me?" <hitchhi...@dont.panic> wrote:
> Turby wrote:
> > Car on the right was stopped, waiting for diagonally parked
> > car to pull out. Car on left was stopped, thinking parked car may
> > need entire roadway to pull out. I split them and continued
>
> He probably SHOULD have given you a ticket or three.
>
> In the past 6 months in my area, TWO riders have DIED when passing stopped
> cages........only to find out WHY they were stopped when it was too late.
>
> What you described has nothing to do with lane splitting OR lane sharing;it
> is just stupidity.

Really WHY? He had a clear line of sight and three people were acting
the idiots...you leave people like that in your wake, not sit around
and wait to see what brilliantly stupid thing they do next.
--
Keith