Right I was silly and took my gf to her work on the Sunday morning, got
stopped, over the limit, 1 year ban etc. 12 Years ago.
What I need to know is, do I need to now get a visa to now get in the
USA, or can I wing it? And hope for the best?
I have heard it may be worth a chance? Or do I really have to go down to
London and preent my case?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember jon@no.no.no (jok) saying something
like:

>Right I was silly and took my gf to her work on the Sunday morning, got
>stopped, over the limit, 1 year ban etc. 12 Years ago.

You is obviously a terrorist and will get your arse reamed out in Gitmo.

Seriously - I doubt if a driving offence will bother them in the
slightest, but who knows. If you wing it and get found out you'd
probably be on a blacklist for ever.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

On Aug 26, 4:22*pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:

> Right I was silly and took my gf to her work on the Sunday morning, got
> stopped, over the limit, 1 year ban etc. *12 Years ago.
> What I need to know is, do I need to now get a visa to now get in the
> USA, or can I wing it? And hope for the best?
> I have heard it may be worth a chance? Or do I really have to go down to
> London and preent my case?

Were you arrested?

--
Dnc

DoetNietComputeren <Doesnotcompute@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Aug 26, 4:22 pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:
>
> > Right I was silly and took my gf to her work on the Sunday morning, got
> > stopped, over the limit, 1 year ban etc. 12 Years ago.
> > What I need to know is, do I need to now get a visa to now get in the
> > USA, or can I wing it? And hope for the best?
> > I have heard it may be worth a chance? Or do I really have to go down to
> > London and preent my case?
>
> Were you arrested?


Yes

On Aug 26, 7:43*pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:

> > Were you arrested?
>
> Yes

In which case, the answer is simple. Having been arrested (regardless
of charge or actual convictions) you are no longer entitled to enter
the US under the visa waiver program. Ergo, you must apply for a visa.

Whether you choose to run the gauntlet, much depends on how you feel
about potentially wasting your airfare and being turned around. Plenty
of people wing it, and no doubt get away with it.

--
Dnc

DoetNietComputeren wrote:

> On Aug 26, 7:43*pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:
>
> > > Were you arrested?
> >
> > Yes
>
> In which case, the answer is simple. Having been arrested (regardless
> of charge or actual convictions) you are no longer entitled to enter
> the US under the visa waiver program. Ergo, you must apply for a visa.

Nononono, it's not quite this simple. This is what the US embassy in
London will tell the OP, but that's them in CYA mode.

The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
of moral turpitude (listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude), drugs-related stuff or
offences that he got got banged up for for more than five years.
Driving while pished is explicitly listed as not falling into the above
categories.

> Whether you choose to run the gauntlet, much depends on how you feel
> about potentially wasting your airfare and being turned around. Plenty
> of people wing it, and no doubt get away with it.

Being turned around (ie, having the immigrations guys put you on the
next plane back instead of volunteering to hop on it) is a Very Bad
Thing and a bit more than a waste of an airfare. Especially if you
think you might have to go back within the next ten years for whatever
reason, because you will not be able to...

IANAIL, but I'd think the OP should be OK. If he's still worried, talk
to a US immigration lawyer about it - there's a bunch of pretty
competent ones in London and I have the contact details for them
somewhere. Alternatively, a search on the britishexpats.com forums
should bring up more information than the OP would ever want to know.
Just don't ask the question above there as it gets asked roughly every
five minutes. IIRC the main problem with getting a visa as a citizen of
a country that is part of the visa waiver program is that once you've
done it you have to do this every time and it's an unnecessary expense
and waste of time if you didn't need it.

Not to mention that if the immigrations officer at the US end decides
that you're up to no good, they don't have to let you in even with a
visa.

--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2|Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:06:44 -0700 (PDT), DoetNietComputeren
<Doesnotcompute@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Aug 26, 7:43*pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:
>
>> > Were you arrested?
>>
>> Yes
>
>In which case, the answer is simple. Having been arrested (regardless
>of charge or actual convictions) you are no longer entitled to enter
>the US under the visa waiver program. Ergo, you must apply for a visa.

Absolute garbage. As long as you can answer No to all of the questions
of the Visa Waiver card, specifically the one about having been
convicted of any crimes of moral turptitude. And while it's not
altogether clear what they may be, the important word is convicted,
not arrested.

>Whether you choose to run the gauntlet, much depends on how you feel
>about potentially wasting your airfare and being turned around. Plenty
>of people wing it, and no doubt get away with it.

He'll be fine. There's much worse in my driving record and it's never
worried me in the slightest.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

Ace wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:06:44 -0700 (PDT), DoetNietComputeren
> <Doesnotcompute@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In which case, the answer is simple. Having been arrested
> > (regardless of charge or actual convictions) you are no longer
> > entitled to enter the US under the visa waiver program. Ergo, you
> > must apply for a visa.
>
> Absolute garbage.

*ding*

> As long as you can answer No to all of the questions
> of the Visa Waiver card, specifically the one about having been
> convicted of any crimes of moral turptitude. And while it's not
> altogether clear what they may be, the important word is convicted,
> not arrested.
>
> > Whether you choose to run the gauntlet, much depends on how you feel
> > about potentially wasting your airfare and being turned around.
> > Plenty of people wing it, and no doubt get away with it.
>
> He'll be fine. There's much worse in my driving record and it's never
> worried me in the slightest.

Of course he will. I don't know how far back they would want to check
anyway but I've been to the US on the VWP on many occasions (the last
time two weeks ago) with a DR10 on my licence, albeit from 20 years ago
now, with nary a glimpse of an orange suit.

--
Chris

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:58:33 +0100, "Timo Geusch"
<tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:

>The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
>of moral turpitude (listed here:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude),

Ahh, so I was wrong about arrested vs. convicted.

But interesting stuff, nonetheless. And I think I'm safe.

>IANAIL, but I'd think the OP should be OK.

Surely there's no doubt? Drunk driving is specifically excluded from
the Moral Turptitude list.

But in any case the most important question is whether there's any way
for the US immigration authorities to find you out, and as they have
no ability to see any UK Police or Criminal Records systems, the
answer would be, in 99% of cases, no way.

>Not to mention that if the immigrations officer at the US end decides
>that you're up to no good, they don't have to let you in even with a
>visa.

I've been called a drug dealer[1] on entry to Newark[2] before now,
which was, I'm sure, intended as a joke, but which I was very careful
about answering - you never know when they might suddenly turn on you.


[1] As in "What's your business?" "Phamacetical industry".
[2] A significant proportion of business travellers into New Jersey
work in this industry.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

>>The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
>>of moral turpitude (listed here:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude),

>>IANAIL, but I'd think the OP should be OK.

> Surely there's no doubt? Drunk driving is specifically excluded from the
> Moral Turptitude list.

Drink-driving is regarded as a fairly minor offence in the US, of course.

What's interesting is the inclusion of "Adultery" in the list... and the
specific exclusion of suicide (but only attempted, no mention of
successful)

CT <me@christrollen.co.uk> wrote:


>
> Of course he will. I don't know how far back they would want to check
> anyway but I've been to the US on the VWP on many occasions (the last
> time two weeks ago) with a DR10 on my licence, albeit from 20 years ago
> now, with nary a glimpse of an orange suit.


Thanks for your replies. I have been to the US since my DR10, but it was
in 2000, so before things got a little bit more difficult...

--
DL1000
XL600V

DoetNietComputeren <Doesnotcompute@gmail.com> wrote in uk.rec.motorcycles
...
>
> On Aug 26, 7:43*pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:
>
> > > Were you arrested?
> >
> > Yes
>
> In which case, the answer is simple. Having been arrested (regardless
> of charge or actual convictions) you are no longer entitled to enter
> the US under the visa waiver program. Ergo, you must apply for a visa.
>
> Whether you choose to run the gauntlet, much depends on how you feel
> about potentially wasting your airfare and being turned around. Plenty
> of people wing it, and no doubt get away with it.

*waves*

--
frag
Microplanet Gravity Beta version : http://www.ukrm.co.uk/gravity

DoetNietComputeren <Doesnotcompute@gmail.com> wrote in uk.rec.motorcycles
...
>
> On Aug 26, 4:22*pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:
>
> > Right I was silly and took my gf to her work on the Sunday morning, got
> > stopped, over the limit, 1 year ban etc. *12 Years ago.
> > What I need to know is, do I need to now get a visa to now get in the
> > USA, or can I wing it? And hope for the best?
> > I have heard it may be worth a chance? Or do I really have to go down to
> > London and preent my case?
>
> Were you arrested?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

Drunk driving is in the "Crimes not involving moral turpitude" list, so
you'll be fine. (but double check)


--
frag
Microplanet Gravity Beta version : http://www.ukrm.co.uk/gravity

Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote in uk.rec.motorcycles ..
>
> But in any case the most important question is whether there's any way
> for the US immigration authorities to find you out, and as they have
> no ability to see any UK Police or Criminal Records systems

Are you sure about that? I remember looking into having to get a visa a
couple of years ago and I recall finding out that they do have access to
all criminal records stored *on the police computers*, but if you were
arrested years and years ago, thats probably only on paper (and probably
destroyed) so you should be ok.

--
frag
Microplanet Gravity Beta version : http://www.ukrm.co.uk/gravity

Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:58:33 +0100, "Timo Geusch"
> <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
> >of moral turpitude (listed here:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude),
>
> Ahh, so I was wrong about arrested vs. convicted.
>
> But interesting stuff, nonetheless. And I think I'm safe.

Unfortunately my GBH arrest means I'm probably not.

Easily solved though - I just don't go to the US anymore. Fuck 'em.

--
ogden

GSXR750 K4
RGV250 VJ22

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:25:08 +0100, ogden <ogden@pre.org> wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:58:33 +0100, "Timo Geusch"
>> <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
>> >of moral turpitude (listed here:
>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude),
>>
>> Ahh, so I was wrong about arrested vs. convicted.
>>
>> But interesting stuff, nonetheless. And I think I'm safe.
>
>Unfortunately my GBH arrest means I'm probably not.

Would it fall into the "Assault with intent to kill, commit rape,
commit robbery or commit serious bodily harm" or the "Assault with a
dangerous or deadly weapon " category ?

>Easily solved though - I just don't go to the US anymore. Fuck 'em.

Even more easily solved - just don't tell the fuckers.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:21:15 +0100, frag <news4@ukrm.co.uk> wrote:

>Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote in uk.rec.motorcycles ..
>>
>> But in any case the most important question is whether there's any way
>> for the US immigration authorities to find you out, and as they have
>> no ability to see any UK Police or Criminal Records systems
>
>Are you sure about that?

99%

>I remember looking into having to get a visa a
>couple of years ago and I recall finding out that they do have access to
>all criminal records stored *on the police computers*,

I think they'd have to request a warrant, or whatever, in order to do
so, and would need some justification first. That, to me, is included
as "no ability to see...".

I'm 99.99% sure that they don't have everyday access.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:16:35 +0100, frag <news4@ukrm.co.uk> wrote:

>Drunk driving is in the "Crimes not involving moral turpitude" list, so
>you'll be fine. (but double check)

NO. Do NOT double check. Once you ask the Embassy, you're fucked.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:09:39 GMT, jon@no.no.no (jok) allegedly wrote:

> Thanks for your replies. I have been to the US since my DR10, but it was
> in 2000, so before things got a little bit more difficult...

I don't think the conditions of the VWP has changed at all, it's just that
they'll scan you, fingerprint you and bugger you on the way in.

Ace wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:16:35 +0100, frag <news4@ukrm.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Drunk driving is in the "Crimes not involving moral turpitude"
> > list, so you'll be fine. (but double check)
>
> NO. Do NOT double check. Once you ask the Embassy, you're fucked.

Is there a "DAMHIK..." missing from that post at all?

--
Chris

Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:25:08 +0100, ogden <ogden@pre.org> wrote:
>
> >Ace wrote:
> >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:58:33 +0100, "Timo Geusch"
> >> <tnewsSPAMMENOT@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
> >> >of moral turpitude (listed here:
> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude),
> >>
> >> Ahh, so I was wrong about arrested vs. convicted.
> >>
> >> But interesting stuff, nonetheless. And I think I'm safe.
> >
> >Unfortunately my GBH arrest means I'm probably not.
>
> Would it fall into the "Assault with intent to kill, commit rape,
> commit robbery or commit serious bodily harm" or the "Assault with a
> dangerous or deadly weapon " category ?

I had D207s fitted. They're dangerous or deadly, right?

--
ogden

GSXR750 K4
RGV250 VJ22

On 27 Aug 2008 12:23:21 GMT, "CT" <me@christrollen.co.uk> wrote:

>Ace wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:16:35 +0100, frag <news4@ukrm.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Drunk driving is in the "Crimes not involving moral turpitude"
>> > list, so you'll be fine. (but double check)
>>
>> NO. Do NOT double check. Once you ask the Embassy, you're fucked.
>
>Is there a "DAMHIK..." missing from that post at all?

No, not at all. But it strikes me as self-evident that once they know
that you've asked if something might be a problem, you're not going to
get away with just not telling them in the future.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

Ace wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2008 12:23:21 GMT, "CT" <me@christrollen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Ace wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:16:35 +0100, frag <news4@ukrm.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Drunk driving is in the "Crimes not involving moral turpitude"
>>>> list, so you'll be fine. (but double check)
>>> NO. Do NOT double check. Once you ask the Embassy, you're fucked.
>> Is there a "DAMHIK..." missing from that post at all?
>
> No, not at all. But it strikes me as self-evident that once they know
> that you've asked if something might be a problem, you're not going to
> get away with just not telling them in the future.

If there's a hint you know there's a problem, even if you haven't asked
you'll end up being just as fucked and probably slightly twisted as
well. If you know you're guilty, you're fucked, if you've done nothing
wrong you still may be found guilty and then you'll still be fucked.


--
FZ1-N GS650GT Go-Ped Sport
BOMB#14 ibW#40 LotR#0 (RIP) BOTAFOT#157 BotM#3

Timo Geusch wrote:
> DoetNietComputeren wrote:
>
>> On Aug 26, 7:43 pm, j...@no.no.no (jok) wrote:
>>
>>>> Were you arrested?
>>> Yes
>> In which case, the answer is simple. Having been arrested (regardless
>> of charge or actual convictions) you are no longer entitled to enter
>> the US under the visa waiver program. Ergo, you must apply for a visa.
>
> Nononono, it's not quite this simple. This is what the US embassy in
> London will tell the OP, but that's them in CYA mode.
>
> The question on the visa waiver specifically asks about offence/crimes
> of moral turpitude (listed here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude), drugs-related stuff or
> offences that he got got banged up for for more than five years.
> Driving while pished is explicitly listed as not falling into the above
> categories.

So you're saying that you can be banged up for less than five years for
an offence that's not in moral turpitude and get let in but get caught,
arrested and fined for somoking a joint[1] and not get let in?

They'll make you pay for a fucking CRO check just so they can refuse you
a visa next.

[1] For the sake of argument.


--
FZ1-N GS650GT Go-Ped Sport
BOMB#14 ibW#40 LotR#0 (RIP) BOTAFOT#157 BotM#3

Whinging Courier wrote:
> They'll make you pay for a fucking CRO check just so they can refuse you
> a visa next.

Next? They already do.

Part of the visa application process is obtaining a copy of your record
from the police, which costs about a tenner iirc.

--
ogden

GSXR750 K4
RGV250 VJ22

Whinging Courier <addressdoesntworksodontbother@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>
> If there's a hint you know there's a problem, even if you haven't asked
> you'll end up being just as fucked and probably slightly twisted as
> well. If you know you're guilty, you're fucked, if you've done nothing
> wrong you still may be found guilty and then you'll still be fucked.

So the general consensus is to say fuck all to any cunt then?
Cool.

--
DL1000
XL600V

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:46:17 +0100, ogden <ogden@pre.org> wrote:

>Whinging Courier wrote:
>> They'll make you pay for a fucking CRO check just so they can refuse you
>> a visa next.
>
>Next? They already do.
>
>Part of the visa application process is obtaining a copy of your record
>from the police, which costs about a tenner iirc.

I think it's more than that, BICBW.

Had to have criminal record (CRB in the UK) checks done last year for
the voluntary work I do with the Ski Club, including leading kid's
holidays. What made me laugh was that it needed to be supplied only
from you current country of residence, who of course have no access
whatsoever to your record before you moved there.

Makes you wonder, eh?
--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:53:22 +0100, jon@no.no.no (jok) wrote:

>Whinging Courier <addressdoesntworksodontbother@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> If there's a hint you know there's a problem, even if you haven't asked
>> you'll end up being just as fucked and probably slightly twisted as
>> well. If you know you're guilty, you're fucked, if you've done nothing
>> wrong you still may be found guilty and then you'll still be fucked.
>
>So the general consensus is to say fuck all to any cunt then?
>Cool.

Finally he gets the message.


--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote in uk.rec.motorcycles ..
>
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:16:35 +0100, frag <news4@ukrm.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Drunk driving is in the "Crimes not involving moral turpitude" list, so
> >you'll be fine. (but double check)
>
> NO. Do NOT double check. Once you ask the Embassy, you're fucked.

Well duh, I didn't mean ask at the bloody Embassy, I mean ask a someone
unofficially who knows.


--
frag
Microplanet Gravity Beta version : http://www.ukrm.co.uk/gravity

Ace wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:46:17 +0100, ogden <ogden@pre.org> wrote:
>
> >Whinging Courier wrote:
> >> They'll make you pay for a fucking CRO check just so they can refuse you
> >> a visa next.
> >
> >Next? They already do.
> >
> >Part of the visa application process is obtaining a copy of your record
> >from the police, which costs about a tenner iirc.
>
> I think it's more than that, BICBW.

You're right. 35 quid, or 70 quid if you need it in a hurry.

http://www.acpo.police.uk/Certificat...20form%207.pdf

--
ogden

GSXR750 K4
RGV250 VJ22